> General Discussions
The Deaths of the Apostles
TimothyVI:
Hi Pax,
I had heard the same thing about the authorship of Revelation.
It seems that most churches still teach that it was the apostle John that
wrote both the book of John and Revelation though.
Thanks for the referencees.
Tim
gmik:
Actually, I had heard that also and had no trouble w/ it. Seems like someone here gave us a link to it. Quite lengthy but detailed.
I had been researching early church history and early church fathers on various websites before I was dragged over to Rays. ;)
I was very interested but haven't studied as much as of late. But I was getting very convinced that early on many things went amuck in Christendom. God was preparing me to move on out.
Deborah-Leigh:
With no due assumed respect to the so called experts 1 Tim 6 : 20 " ..guard the treasure you were given! Guard it with your life. AVOID the talk-show religion and the practiced confusion of the so - called experts. People caught up in a lot of talk can miss the whole point of faith. guard and keep the deposit entrusted to you. Turn away from the irreverent babble and godless chatter, with the vain and empty and worldly phrases, and the subtleties and the contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination. 1 Tim 1 : 4 Nor give importance to or occupy yourselves with legends, fables, myths and endless genealogies, which foster and promote useless speculations and questionings rather than acceptance in faith of God's administration and the divine training that is in faith, in that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence.
2 Tim 3 : 16 EVERY Scripture is God breathed...........
The Apocrypha is not considered as Scripture therefore it is not God breathed, neither is it given by His inspiration and neither is it profitable for instruction....so why discuss it? (Rhetorical question.) It is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. I am glad I am out of Mystery Babylon and its snares and plagues of intrigue and I do not desire to accomodate its teachings and illustrious illusions, deceptive and decieving hypocrisy and pretensions deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach.
Arcturus :)
Deborah-Leigh:
this is copied from Chuckt from the thread What religios in Babylon. I think this information fits here too.
Thanks Chuckt-Euty
we are told what is mystery babylon in scriptures:
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
what reigns over the kings of the earth? confusion!!
babylon= babel which literal means "confusion by mixing"
mystery means:hidden thing, secret, mystery confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding a hidden purpose or counsel
secret will 1c
so we see only few know about it and few understand to come out. come out of what? confusion by mixing.
we be not concerned of worldly things so ours is a spiritual exodus, and we understand what is mixed in the religious community "today"
physical/spiritual
grace/law
and: what was confused in the beginning??? ((language)) the original tower of babel!!!!!!!that great city still exsists today.how many christians do you know confused by reading the bible from a 21st century mindset and seeing the words and not knowing???
ray has a perfect example:
The "hell" as the English used it in everyday life in the 1600’s:
Webster’s Twentieth Century Dictionary: "hell, n. [ME, helle; AS, hell, hell, from helan, to cover, conceal.]"
The "hell" of the 21st Century:
The American Heritage Collegiate Dictionary: "The abode of condemned souls and devils...the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan…a state of separation from God…a place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction …torment, anguish."
is it not evident when we see churches resembling the world and its ways.
when we see confusion we can remember Pauls insight shared with Timothy 2 tim 1 : 7 For God has not given us the spirit of fear; bot of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8 Be not ashamed of the testimony of our Lord.....
The Testimony of our Lord is the book of Revelations!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
M_Oliver:
The original post once again causes me to doubt where WE are. You who are reading this, ME, Ray and all the others who have understood Ray's teachings enough to actually become a member of this board. For a LONG time I have had a real problem with people thinking they are suffering some kind of persecution when something happens to them that happens to thousands and thousands of people every day.
People who believe Jesus was the Messiah as well as people who don't even know His name SUFFER every damn day in this world. They lose children to disease, accident's and brutal murder's. They suffer financially. They get fired from their job's. They get blown up in terrorist attacks. Do you believe all of them are the "elect"? Of course not.
So how can we who understand universal reconciliation, the resurrection of the dead, many called-few chosen and the lie of eternal punishment think we are any more the "elect" rather than the "many called"? I submit we cannot.
God made me fatherless at the age of 8 and my mother a widow at the age of 27 via a car crash. This is ABSOLUTELY nothing compared to what happened to the Apostles in the OP personally. They truly LIVED Galatians 2:20. Christ was brutally murdered, the people who He truly lived His life in were brutally murdered and in the case of John brutally tortured PERSONALLY and physically. None of us has suffered like this because of WHAT WE BELIEVE. Noone in power seeks to murder us because of these doctrines. What does it mean? I wish I knew!
This also begs the question of-Why isn't there a recorded history over the generations of the "elect" being brutally murdered as Christ and the Apostles were? Why? Did God change the rules for being "elect" after the first century? No Scripture I am aware of supports that.
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