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good and evil

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Jennie:
The wonder of God to me is that He does know all is the creator of all He grants us this life. Of course, I do believe that all our choices are based on something in our lives. If ya'll will indulge me just a minute.... I have 1 whole brother and a half brother. Our Daddy was an alcoholic which ended up killing him. My Daddy has asked me before why me and my brother were different from our half brother. He has been in prison 3 times, is a meth- addict, an alcoholic and has 8 children with 5 different women and supports none of them. He has broken into my Daddy's home and stole everything he could including Daddy's truck. Daddy has taken out many bank loans to bail him out of trouble. My brother is a career military man, has a lovely family and a good home. We also have a lovely family and now (since it has been fixed from the fire) have a lovely home as well. Me and my brother are far from wealthy but have always worked , paid our bills and took care of what we needed to. We never even thought about going to our parents to help us out . Now  I am not saying that we are any better than our half brother but we were blessed to have our Mama to teach us and also grand-parents to teach us. Our half-brother didn't have that. That's not to say he couldn't have made better choices, he could have but didn't.  For whatever reasons it happened. Something was in me and my brother that made us cautious of alcohol and all so we avoided it because we didn't ant our families to have to go through it. Our half-brother didn't have that same caution. The wonder of God though is that He loves us all the same. My half brother can decide to turn his life around. It wouldn't be easy but he could do it. Our circumstances were sort of the same but different too and our choices in life have been different. I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone but me but that's just how I look at it. I don't understand all of it but I know that it is all in God's hands. He has my life. Jennie

Kat:

Hi Jennie,

We are all in this life where we are suppose to be.  We do not choose the life we are born into, some are vessels of honor, some are also born to dishonor.

2Ti 2:20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.

This life is a time to experience both good and evil, and we go where we are caused to go.

Jer 10:23  I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.

Here is a email of Ray's that futher shows we have no free will.

http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#passion -------------------

You state that Jesus KNEW BEFORE HE CREATED THE WORLD that "...mankind was going to turn away from God," even though (according to all Christendom and the wisdom of this pagan world) He gave EVERY ONE OF THOSE HUMANS a "free-moral-agency-will" by which NOT ONE OF THEM HAD TO, OR WERE CAUSED TO, "turn away from God."

If they truly had a "free will," that is a will to make choices that are NOT CAUSED or INFLUENCED in any way by God Himself through the billions of circumstances throughout one's life (See Phil. 2:3, Eph. 1:11, and hundred more just like them), why did they ALL choose to "turn away from GOD?" That is a very very very negative thing! That FIFTY BILLION our of FIFTY BILLION "free wills" ('FREE' wills--'FREE' mind you) would ALL DO THE SAME NEGATIVE AND EVIL THING. WHY?

Is "free will" just inherently 'NEGATIVE?'  Is there something about man's will that just ALWAYS goes the WRONG WAY, unless and until a more POWERFUL POSITIVE FORCE (might I suggest the Holy Spirit of God?) influences these 'free-wills' to TURN TO GOD, rather than to turn away from God?  But wait! If it takes a more positive OPPOSING force to CAUSE these free will to turn TO GOD, rather than AWAY FROM GOD, then have we not just SCRAPPED THE WHOLE IDEA THAT THE WILL IS 'FREE' IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why, yes we did; OF COURSE WE DID. There is NO FREE WILL IN MAN. Man has a "CARNAL MIND." Do you doubt what I say?  ALL MEN ARE BORN WITH A CARNAL MIND!

I believe there is a Scripture somewhere on that... Let's try Rom. 8:2,

"For the LAW of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus have MADE ME FREE..."

No, that is not what Christendom and her High Priests teach. They teach that we are BORN FREE. That EVERY MAN HAS A 'FREE' will. But notice what this Scripture says, it takes a "LAW" to MAKE [when something 'MAKES' a person do something, he is no longer 'free' to do otherwise]... to MAKE "me FREE" Paul tells us.  Now then, what does this "Law of the Spirit" MAKE us free from?

"..from the LAW if sin and death."

Another "LAW"! Do you realize just what a law is? A law is something that ALWAYS works in the same predetermined manner. Hence the Law of Gravity--which ALWAYS pulls things DOWN and not UP.
The 'law of sin and death' is a downward pull that NO CARNAL MIND CAN RESIST. Therefore, the idea that he possesses a free will that can CHOOSE TO NOT BE PULLED DOWN, is unscriptural foolishness!

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh [the flesh is weak and it cannot 'free-will' itself to be anything BUT weak and totally incapable of TURNING TO A GOD WHO IS STRONG], God sending His Own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk NOT after the [weak] flesh [which always turns away from God] but after the Spirit [which is STRONG and ALWAYS turns toward God].

For they that are after the flesh [a LAW of the flesh] do mind the things of the flesh [why? why don't they us 'free-will' themselves NOT to 'mind the things of the flesh?']: but they that are after the Spirit [the LAW of the Spirit] the things of the Spirit.  For to be carnally minded [that's how we are all born--first the natural, the carnal, then the afterwards the SPIRITUAL, I Cor. 15:46] is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace. [And just why is that so?]... Because the carnal mind is enmity [deep-seated HATRED] against God [how can this be since the carnal mind is FREE to NOT hate God?

The carnal mind is NOT FREE, it CANNOT freely choose to NOT HATE GOD. That takes another LAW--the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, NEITHER INDEED C-A-N BE. [This verse says that the natural carnal mind of ALL MANKIND, absolutely CAN NOT 'freely choose' to follow and love God!]. So then they that are IN THE FLESH [Randy, every single person ever born is born IN THE FLESH] CANNOT please God. [They CANNOT! If they truly had a "free will" then they could 'freely WILL' TO PLEASE GOD, couldn't they?]

No, Randy, they couldn't, because they have no such will that is "free." We all have a "will" alright, but is is anything but FREE. It follows the "law of the flesh" every time. Only the opposing force of the SPIRIT OF GOD can CAUSE MAN'S WILL to desire God and to voluntarily seek to please God. Yes, I voluntarily will to please God, but not because some phantom 'free will' allowed me to make that choice, but rather because "God DRAGGED ME to Christ" (John 6:44). And how thankful I am that He did. No, Randy, there will not be a FEW in heaven and the MAJORITY in hell for all eternity. God commissioned Jesus Christ to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD. And Mel Gibson's film portrays that ultimate Sacrifice to bring about the World's salvation. The utter shame and pity of it all is, that YOU and BILLIONS like you, DO NOT BELIEVE IT!!

You both believe and teach that JESUS CHRIST WILL NOT IN A TRILLION TRILLION EONS, ever "save the world."--the only commission that His Father in Heaven gave Him to do (I John 4:14). Are we to laud Christ's supreme sacrificed and then suggest to the world that IT FAILED TO ACCOMPLISH ITS PURPOSE?  That Jesus will be a FAILURE in saving the world? 

You know what I wish, Randy? I wish a million news papers around the world would print this email of mine to you, in their editorials!

May God be with you, and give you the faith to begin believing the Scriptures and not the perverted and evil doctrines of men.

Ray
------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helped  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Jennie:
Am I understanding right that what is being said is that , in our situation, my half brother cannot change his ways? He has to keep having kids, has to keep using alcohol and meth and doing things to send him to jail? I don't mean this in a controversial way but just to understand. Jennie

Craig:

--- Quote from: Jennie on April 08, 2007, 11:46:22 PM ---Am I understanding right that what is being said is that , in our situation, my half brother cannot change his ways?

--- End quote ---

No you are not understanding right.  Sure your brother can change his ways if God decides to drag him from the gutter of sin.  It is only by the grace of God that you or I don't have the same problems or worse than your brother.  We are all created as fallen "sinning machines" and we do our jobs very well.  Until God decides to pull us out of our sins we will continue to make the choices that our natures dictate. 

I don't understand why God creates some as vessels of honor and others dishonor, but I do know that God is in charge and knows what he is doing, and in the end it will work to perfection. 

We can do nothing of ourselves to change our ways, can a leopard change his spots?  But through judgment we will eventually be made to perfection, I, you and your brother.

Blessings
Craig

DWIGHT:
Hi Darren and Craig,

Maybe there's a difference between those that are called and those that are chosen.  Many are called, including the whole world, right?  Because, eventually, the whole world will be saved, albeit in a different age.  Man, through the creation, can see the invisible things of God so that he is without excuse but like the scripture says,

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Rom. 3:11

"An evil man seeketh only rebellion..."Pro. 17:11

Yet there hundreds of scriptures that talk about seeking God and finding Him if we seek Him with our whole heart.  What I'm saying is that God may only be drawing (dragging) those that He wants to draw in this present age now, and later will draw all men to Himself.  It is all God's doing one way or another.

Just some thoughts,

Dwight

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