> General Discussions
Two resurrections; when do they take place?
Evan600:
--- Quote from: Kat on May 27, 2007, 04:09:28 PM ---In chapter 15 of Cor. who is Paul speaking to?
1Co 15:1 And, brothers, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you have received, and in which you stand;
So what is being said in this chapter is applied to the brothers/elect only. That is who he is explaining things to.
You gave those verses in the middle of that chapter, but there he is still talking to the brothers.
And he ends that chapter speaking to the brothers, he is telling them about their resurrection, the first resurrection. That word brothers can not be discounted.
1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
v. 51 Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed;
v. 52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
v. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
v. 57 But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
v. 58 So that, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not without fruit in the Lord.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Though this chapter IS directed to the brothers, or the Elect, are we to say that this verse is applied ONLY to the Elect:
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Though it is directed to the Elect, Paul is still expounding on the resurrection. The ONLY resurrection. This is the same type of logic that someone else uses to justify the wrath of God abiding on the Elect. This is not Scriptural. There is no where that I see of another "type" of resurrection other than incorruptible, for ALL of the dead.
Love to you,
Jason
Evan600:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 27, 2007, 04:15:35 PM ---Okay Jason
So you agree that they, the non-elect die again, the second death, but not that they are raised corruptable. How do you figure that? You say the non-elect are not raised "corruptible"...YES you said it not me! Quote : "After the non elect are raised 'corruptible'....first part unscriptural....." unquote...So do you think the non-elect have no corruption that has to die? ...so what is going to die in the second scriptural death according to you: What is it that has to die and has to be defeated under the rule of Christ if not corruption and corruptible flesh? What then? Do you perhaps believe that the person is the flesh body. We are not our bodies but that which are in our bodies. The body of flesh carnality of mind has to die. It is the chaff as has been clarified by Joe via Ray Smith.
I believe the tares will perish. Then God will remake them through the LOF. They will perish in the second death and be remade through the correction process of rebirth. The elect will help Christ administer this Government to this end don't the scriptures say? ALL will be saved...but not in the same time or the same way!
You say : 3. After the non elect are raised 'corruptible,' they would die again. (first part unscriptural, second scriptural)
Are you confusing the issues here to try to get to something that doesn't exist? Either we believe God or we don't. He says what is going to happen and HE is not way off but false teaching can certainly be way out! :D
That is all I am going to say on this matter for this time being.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Okay Arcturus,
Bottom line: There is NO Scripture that says anything about a physical, corruptible resurrection.
Do you agree, or disagree?
We must define something here. We must define what the lake of fire is for. Here is a question, because I purify something, does that mean that I corrupt it? Not neccessarily. If I purify silver, it is NOT corrupted, but it is purified. Does this make sense?
I see that you have to add to the Scripture to support a doctrine of a physical, corruptible resurrection. Because something is purified, does not mean it is corrupted. Until I see 2 Scriptures to support another kind of resurrection, I see only an uncorruptible one.
This is almost getting ridiculous. Not one verse that says anything about a physical resurrection.
Love to you,
Jason
rocky:
I don't know if this helps, but this is why i earlier said i see the resurrection as a process. I see those in the LOF as being raised incorruptible, a process. Not linear.
I believe there is only one resurrection, and that is Jesus Christ. He is the resurrection. Two different times they occur, but only one resurrection.
I see the resurrection to judgment (non elect) a process that leads to incorruptible too.
But I agree Jason, there is no good scripture to support the non elect are raised into a physical body, spirit (equalling a soul) again. But we can trust scripture that however God does it, the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Thesting of sin is death. The strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:56 The sting of sin is death; and the strength of sin is the law.
Somethting i find interesting too is this:
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Why referring to "it" rather than they?
Evan600:
Great point Rocky. I think that the word it would be referring to the body, as a general term.
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up[referring to ALL of the dead, that die in Adam]? and with what body do they[all of the dead that die in Adam] come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it[the physical body is the first death] die:
- Jason
rocky:
I just want to take time to thank the moderators and all who have participated on this thread for bearing with me as I ask questions and outline the things I'm going through to understand God's awesome plan.
I have often been worried of stepping over the line here at this forum by bringing in my thoughts and questions; but I believe this thread is a good example of how we can explore without being reprimanded. Thank you all.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version