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Two resurrections; when do they take place?
Deborah-Leigh:
Amen Rocky!
The Scriptures of full of this allegory. The called and the chosen. The lost and found. The goats and the sheep. The left and the right! Those who receive a reward and those who receive lashings.
It will all be Spiritual in the end of the flesh and carnal mind and if my posts are a bit too hot to handle at times please forgive me!
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Evan600:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 27, 2007, 01:25:14 PM ---Hello Jason
First off, if God did not say it then it is Heresy.
Revelations 20 : 5 is NOT in the oldest manuscripts. Why keep considering it as if it is Gods word? It is NOT Gods word!
Anyway, all of the dead will not live again in the full sense and in the perfect sense until they are perfected in either the resurrection unto judgement or life in Christ. What is so difficult?
In Rom 11:17 Paul tells of the Abrahamic covenant as a root out of which fleshly Israel grew naturally and which the Gentiles were grafted in after the natural branches were cut off. They were cut off because of disbelief and rejection of the truth and the Messiah who came to them and they knew Him not. So there you have the two types. The earthly, human and the heavenly spiritual that constitutes two phases of the kingdom.
The scriptures tell us that in order of development it was first the natural, earthly and then afterward the heavenly as in first from corruption or Adam and then conformed into Christ the second Adam. During the time of Abraham, the promise to him was earthly: it related to the land and this promise has not yet been fulfilled and will not be fulfilled until the still higher heavenly promises concerning Christ are fulfilled that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb 11:13,39,40.
Also consider that they shall inherit the earth. Jesus said it. Theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus said that too. Is this not the two phases? Well I believe it is.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Okay,
In Romans 11:17, talking about the branches, what does this have anything to do with a so-called physical resurrection? That is definetly not a verse that is in support of that doctrine, as it is not even referring to the resurrection.
Now, let's look at Revelation:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
We omit that part of the verse. Then:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Still expounding from vs. 4. Then:
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
After the 1000 years, the devil is thrown into the lake. Then:
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne [From Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired] , and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Mind you, we are ommiting a big section in verse 5, and as we move down in order of the chapter, it's no wonder why that was in there, even if it wasn't part of the manuscript. The dead aren't judged in the great white throne until AFTER the 1000 years. This is just the order of the chapter.
What makes this difficult is the order of the chapter.
When you said:
--- Quote ---Anyway, all of the dead will not live again in the full sense and in the perfect sense until they are perfected in either the resurrection unto judgement or life in Christ.
--- End quote ---
This kind of makes sense to me. Does this mean that they are raised in a spiritual(not physical) body, and then after the 1000 years, they are then placed before the great white throne? In other words:
There is the 1000 year judgment which is done by the Elect, and then there is the great white throne judgement in which God saves them?
peace to you
Evan600:
To add one more thing. If we do omit that part of vs. 5, we are just missing the fact that they are not raised until after the thousand years. Meaning that they were raised before the 1000 years were up, and were not at the GWT until after the 1000 years. They are still judged, just not raised, because they were already raised.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Jason
I do not know why you have, it appears to me, to have trouble with thinking that the dead can not be raised up to their flesh again. Jesus raised up Lazarus and others who had died and THEY went on and continued in their life times and fulfilled their lives in the flesh. So don't you think it could happen that the wicked are going to be raised up again in the flesh, their corruptable flesh and corruptable carnal minds to be tempted AGAIN and then finally perfected when at last God will be all in all?
For me it is clear. The dead IN CHRIST will be raised to Spiritual bodies, perfected and heirs of the promises of Christ. The dead in SINS will be raised to sinful bodies and perfected through the LOF.
Anyway, I commend your effort to find out the truth.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Evan600:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 27, 2007, 02:51:15 PM ---Hello Jason
I do not know why you have, it appears to me, to have trouble with thinking that the dead can not be raised up to their flesh again. Jesus raised up Lazarus and others who had died and THEY went on and continued in their life times and fulfilled their lives in the flesh. So don't you think it could happen that the wicked are going to be raised up again in the flesh, their corruptable flesh and corruptable carnal minds to be tempted AGAIN and then finally perfected when at last God will be all in all?
For me it is clear. The dead IN CHRIST will be raised to Spiritual bodies, perfected and heirs of the promises of Christ. The dead in SINS will be raised to sinful bodies and perfected through the LOF.
Anyway, I commend your effort to find out the truth.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
I see where you're coming from. The reason that I have trouble with the dead being raised physical is because there is no Scripture that I can find to support it. This is what I see:
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
moving on:
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up[all of the dead]? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead[the resurrection of ALL the dead; "as in Adam ALL die"]. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
I believe that the second death occurs after this resurrection for those that are not the elect. The second death occuring after they are raised in incorruption. I see nothing at all in the Scripture that says anything contrary.
In Christ,
Jason
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