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Indignation & Wrath vs. Affliction & Tribulation

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hillsbororiver:
From Ray's article;

Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory


http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm


At this point in our discussion, it will be helpful to define some words that are often interchanged as if they are virtually one and the same. It is important that we understand the meanings of important words that are wrongly applied by those who teach the rapture:

1. Affliction: Keyword Concordance, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble, ill treatment, suffering. Webster’s: affliction, any cause of pain or suffering.

AND

2.Tribulation: Keyword Concordance, affliction Webster’s: tribulation, great misery or distress

VERSUS

3.Wrath: Keyword Concordance, fury, indignation, vexation Webster’s: wrath, intense anger, rage, fury, vengeance

AND

4.Indignation: Keyword Concd., anger, vengeance, wrath Webster’s: Adj.-- indignation, expressing anger especially unjust or mean actions. Noun-- righteous anger.

Although there is somewhat of an overlap in defining these words, we can still get a clear picture as to how these words are used in the Scriptures. Notice that "affliction" and "tribulation" are nearly synonymous. Notice also, that "wrath" and "indignation" are nearly synonymous. "Affliction" can be defined as "tribulation," and "tribulation" can be defined as "affliction." Likewise, "wrath" can be defined as "indignation," and "indignation" can be defined as "wrath." But, the first two words, "affliction and tribulation" are not synonymous with the second two words, "wrath and indignation." There is a giant difference in their usage, and especially when used in a prophetic setting. I hope I haven’t lost anyone. Reread this a few times and you’ll get it.

It is when we fail to keep these prophetic events where they belong that we end up with ideas such that Christ is coming back a second time twice.

The Scripture says,

"For God did not appoint us to INDIGNATION ..." (I Thes. 5:9).

It nowhere says that God has not appointed us to trials, troubles, pain, suffering, heartache, disappointment, disease, death, or hurricanes! In fact, Paul himself, tells us that we enter the Kingdom of God by going through a whole lot of these things (Acts 14:22).

I personally, presently, am going through trials, troubles, pain, suffering, heartache, disappointment, disease, and two very near death experiences in the past few years, not to mention hurricane Andrew. But, nonetheless, it is a great comfort to me to know that God has not appointed me to His indignation. Believers are chastised by a wise Father out of LOVE, the nations will be punished by an angry God out of VENGEANCE. Can we not see the difference? (Actually God’s "anger and vengeance" is also out of love, but the nations will certainly not initially perceive it as such).

When we look at all the ways that "indignation" is used in the Greek Scriptures, it becomes overwhelmingly clear that "indignation" is used of God to punish the wicked and stubborn. Indignation is not a direct form of chastisement. No matter how many, how much, how often, how severe your sufferings and tribulations may be, if you love God you can be absolutely guaranteed that not one iota of it is coming upon you in the form of God’s indignation. Here then is how, on whom, and when God pours out His indignation:

"Progeny of vipers! Who intimates to you to be fleeing from the impending indignation?" (Matt. 3:7).

"For God’s indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men ..." (Rom. 1:18).

"Yet, in accord with your hardness and unrepentant heart you are hoarding for yourself indignation in the day of indignation and revelation of the just judgment of God ..." (Rom. 2:5).

"Much rather, then, being now justified in His blood, we shall be saved from indignation, through Him" (Rom. 5:9).

"Now if God, wanting to display His indignation and to make His powerful doings known, carries, with much patience, the vessels of indignation ..." (Rom. 9:22).

"Being at peace with all mankind, you are not avenging yourselves, beloved, but be giving place to His indignation, for it is written, "Mine is vengeance! I will repay! The Lord is saying" (Rom. 12:19).

"Let no one be seducing you with empty words, for because of these things the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness" (Eph. 5:6).

"Deaden, then, your members that are on the earth: prostitution, uncleanness, passion, evil desire and greed, which is idolatry, because of which the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness ..." (Col. 3:5-6).

"Wherefore, ‘I am disgusted with this generation, and said, Ever are they straying in heart; Yet they know not My ways,’ As I swear in My indignation, If they shall be entering into My rest ...!" (Heb. 3:10-11).

"Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him Who is sitting on the throne, and from the indignation of the Lambkin, for the great day of Their indignation came, and who is able to stand? (Rev. 6:17).

"And the nations are angered, and Thy indignation came, and the era for the dead to be judged, and to give their wages to Thy slaves, the prophets, and to the saints and to those fearing Thy name, the small and the great, and to blight those who are blighting the earth" (Rev. 11:18-19).

"If anyone is worshiping the wild beast and its image, and is getting an emblem on his forehead or on his hand, he, also, is drinking of the wine of the fury of God, blended undiluted in the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented in fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy messengers and in the sight of the Lambkin" (Rev. 14:9-10).

"And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation" (Rev. 16:19).

"And He is treading the wine trough of the fury of the indignation of God, the Almighty" (Rev. 19:15).

There are the Greek Scriptures on indignation. Notice that it always comes from God. It is poured out in vengeance upon the unrepentant, the stubborn, the unjust and irreverent, those who worship the beast, etc. Never is God’s indignation poured out on His SAINTS! Not the Gentile saints and not the Jewish saints. The saints of Israel have not "been appointed to indignation", they are not "of the night," they will not "be overtaken as a thief," they are a part of "all the saints," I Thes. 2:14 and 3:13.

It is stated that those called in Paul’s message of grace will not go through the Great Tribulation period, because:

"Jesus, our Rescuer out of the coming indignation" (I Thes. 1:10),

and

"God did not appoint us to indignation ..." (I Thes. 5:9).

But look at our definitions of words again. God is promising to rescue us out of coming "indignation," not "tribulation." God did not appoint us to "indignation," but He did appoint us to "tribulation." These terms are not synonymous.

hillsbororiver:
The following is from an unpublished e-mail sent from Ray  


"Lord, REBUKE me not in Thy WRATH: neither CHASTEN me in Thy HOT DISPLEASURE" (Psalm 38:1).

The Hebrew words translated "rebuke & chasten" are virtually identical in this verse, and the Hebrew words translated "wrath & hot displeasure" are virtually identical. Rotherham even translates "hot displeasure" as "wrath"—"Nor in thy wrath [hot displeasure] chastise me."

From Strong’s we find the following:

"Rebuke" is from jakach and means: "to correct, reprove, chasten."

"Chasten" is from yasar and means: "to correct, reprove, chasten."

But"

"Wrath" is from kehtzeph and it means: "rage, indignation, wrath"

"Hot displeasure" is chemah and means: "rage indignation, wrath"

Now then, "rebuke & chasten" are in the "same family" and "wrath & hot displeasure" are in the "same family," but "wrath" and "chasten" are decidedly NOT in the same family.

Maybe this analogy will help a few of you to understand: When a teacher "corrects, reproves, and chastens" our children, we pay him a nice salary. But when a teacher displays "rage, indignation, and WRATH" toward our children; we FIRE HIM. Am I going too fast for anyone?

Psalm 38 undeniably shows that God was going to rebuke and/or chasten King David, and for this David was okay. What David did not desire, however, is for God to rebuke and chasten him IN HIS HOT DISPLEASURE AND WRATH. If anyone still doesn’t see the simple truth of these words, then maybe check it out with a 5th grade grammar teacher. Wrath means "ANGER." In Rev. 6:16 "…the wrath [Gk: orge] of the Lamb" mean "ANGER, indignation, vengeance, wrath" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary). But not just the "Now don’t be angry with me, sweetheart" variety of anger but, "violent passion or abhorrence" (again from Strong’s Dictionary).

There is a giant difference between affliction and tribulation which we "ARE appointed thereunto" (I Thes. 3:2-3, and wrath which we are "delivered from" (I Thes. 1:10) and "are NOT appointed unto" (I Thes. 5:9).

rocky:
So the wrath/indignation of God is for those destined for the second resurrection and LOF, non elect.  The wrath of God is the seals that are opened in Revelation.

Yet some will say that because Christ is, was and will be; that all are destined for his wrath, just occuring at different times; now for his elect, later for those in LOF, and through this wrath, death of death occurs. 

I've even seen some on other boards praying for God's wrath upon them. 

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Personally, I hope and pray for God's chastisement, but don't want to go through the seals and indignation. 

rocky:
Here's something i've been thinking about.  See if you all agree or not.

Wrath/indignation=hardening; those destined for LOF, vessel of wrath

Chastisement/tribulation=mercy; those destined for 1st resurrection


Result of Wrath (vessels fitted for destruction), is mercy to some (the elect going through trial and chastisement).  The result of mercy to some (the elect) is eventually mercy on all.

Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy (tribulation/chastiesement) on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth (wrath of God).
 
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (those going through tribulation), which he had afore prepared unto glory, (those in 1st resurrection, going through fire of mercy)

Rom 11:12  Now if the fall (wrath of God) of them be the riches of the world (vessels of mercy), and the diminishing of them (wrath of God) the riches of the Gentiles (mercy); how much more their fullness (those going through wrath, eventually a "much more")?

Rom 11:15  For if the casting away (wrath of God) of them be the reconciling of the world (those receiving mercy), what shall the receiving of them (those going through wrath) be, but life from the dead? (praise God, life for all)
 
Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness (tribulation/chastisemnent) and severity (wrath of God) of God: on them which fell, severity (wrath of God); but toward thee, goodness (chastisement/tribulation), if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
 
Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy (chastisement/tribulation) through their unbelief (vessels fitted for wrath):

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed (vessels of wrath), that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. (praise God again, through our baptism into death to life, they too will obtain life)

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all (vessels fitted for wrath) in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


Sorry if this doesn't make sense, just trying to put thots on paper. 

hillsbororiver:
Hi Rocky,

What you wrote makes perfect sense. You have discerned the difference between His elect and those who are destined for the White Throne Judgment and the LOF. Here is more from that same e-mail;

"Behold, I will cast her [followers of Jezebel—Babylon] into bed and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION."

Our tribulation comes from a "Loving Father" out of LOVE to correct and perfect us for salvation.
 
Babylon’s tribulation comes from an "ANGRY God of wrath" to punish and harden for destruction.
 
"Let NO MAN DECEIVE YOU with vain words: for because of these things [vain words of deceiving men upon the called children] comes THE WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience" (Eph. 5:6).

If you believe that YOU as one of God’s Elect will receive this wrath in Eph. 5:6, then that is proof positive that YOU ARE INDEED DECEIVED BY A MAN. There is no debating it. If you agree that you are one of the "children of disobedience" upon which the "wrath of God" will come, then you truly ARE DECEIVED.

But how can I say that? Because verse 7 says:

"BE NOT YE [God’s Elect] therefore PARTAKERS WITH THEM" ! ! !
The "them" being the "children of disobedience" upon whom "the WRATH of God" comes in verse 7.

His Peace to you,

Joe

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