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Indignation & Wrath vs. Affliction & Tribulation

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hillsbororiver:
Hello again Rocky,

What could Peter mean in the following scripture if not that there are two experiences, one for the elect and another for everyone else?

1Pe 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
 
1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

His Peace to you,

Joe

rocky:
I think these apply too,

The empty house, not what I want.

Mat 12:44  Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45  Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

DWIGHT:
Hi Joe,

The way I see it, wrath and tribulation are like the called and the elect.  Which would make sense since the whole of scripture is one or the other.  Spiritually, I see that it can be both in us.  Our natural man, or the marred vessel the flesh, is under the wrath of God.  But our inner man, the new man, is fitted for honor and glory.

The called.....

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Jeremiah 18:4
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Romans 9:26
And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Romans 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

The elect.....

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

We were by nature the children of wrath even as others.  This is the beast in all of us.  This beast is destined for wrath, but God will show mercy on the new man that He created in us through Christ.

In Him,

Dwight

Kat:

Hi Dwight,

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
v. 4  just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
v. 5  having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
v. 6  to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Since the elect have always been the chosen from the foundation of the world, they could never have been under God's wrath.  Because the elect have always been the elect.
The scripture you provided shows that God did not appoint the elect to wrath, I believe that means never.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now before we were given the Holy Spirit that Christ might live in us, we did live according to the flesh, and we were children of wrath. 

Eph 2:3  among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

But God never has poured out His wrath on us and no scripture says that.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Deborah-Leigh:
I think this confirms HOW Judas was appointed to "wrath". God is the potter ;D

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