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End time prophecy not related to hell
hillsbororiver:
It is good to see you again Laren,
I must say though if this is the New Jerusalem I think I would be a willing candidate for annihilation, if this present world is what the Paul meant by;
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
My imagination can do better than this. ;)
His Peace to you,
Joe
mrsnacks:
I wanted to make it clear that there is an orthodox preterist position. I am not at all a full preterist. I was surprised in all my years in church that I wasn't told about the events in 70 A.D. and the writings of Josephus.In my classes with Lindsey he never mentioned 70 A.D.
That everything Jesus was talking to the disciples about was all future in the 20th century was Lindsey's position . It just didn't make sense to me inside of me. He did say this generation shall not pass....." Also the women weeping before Him - He turned to them and said don't weep for me , but weep for yourselves and your children for what they will have to face. Also some of you standing here will be alive to see these things happening. It was pretty clear He was talking about events that would happen soon. That is the extent of my position on eschatology.
Good points raised by Laren.
hillsbororiver:
I can't see it at all,
There are no more tears, or death, my dead parents and sister and brother and all the dead have been raised? We move about like the wind, we have spiritual bodies, there is no more sorrow, all have been brought to Christ, every mouth has confessed Jesus is Lord and Saviour and He already has given the Kingdom to the Father?
WOW! Where have I been?
Joe
Kat:
Hi mrsnacks,
Here is an email from Ray on Matt 24, concerning 'this generation.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4095.0.html -------
Dear Robert:
You dogmatically state that Jesus certainly meant: "THIS generation," and not "THAT generation," proving that all the things He mentioned or prophesied HAD to happen in His day and generation or "Was Jesus WRONG?"
Jesus gave prophesies in this chapter that absolutely did not occur in the first century AD regardless of all the unscriptural nonsense the Preterists teach. Did, for example, verse 31 of this 24th chapter of Matthew occur in the first century AD: "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other?"
No, no it didn't occur even as yet (2000 years later). But when it does occur, then "THIS" generation (the ONE which "shall see ALL THESE THINGS") will not pass until all things in this prophecy are completed.
Next consider your "this or that" argument. The word "This" in verse 34 is translated from the following Greek:
G3778
οὗτος, οὗτοι, αὕτη, αὕται
houtos houtoi hautē hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
And here is what Dr. Strong says it means: "...this or THAT..." ! As in "this or THAT generation."
God be with you,
Ray
-------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Laren:
--- Quote from: Kat on May 07, 2007, 07:45:13 PM ---
Jesus gave prophesies in this chapter that absolutely did not occur in the first century AD regardless of all the unscriptural nonsense the Preterists teach.
Did, for example, verse 31 of this 24th chapter of Matthew occur in the first century AD: "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other?"
No, no it didn't occur even as yet (2000 years later).
Ray
-------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
A preterist would disagree on this statement, but it's just in how one looks at it. To look at preterism as a valid doctrine, you have to spiritualize these statements. But as i stated before, there is plenty of info out there if people are interested in learning more.
Here's another one that people have a hard time with.
Prophecy:
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world (Greek oikumene) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come” (Matthew 24:14)
Most would say, that the gospel hasn't been preached to all the world, so the end could not have come yet.
Yet, Paul says this:
“But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
‘Their sound has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world (Greek oikumene)”
“And the gospel must first be published among all nations (Greek ethnos)” (Mark 13:10)
“...My gospel... has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations (Greek ethnos)...” (Romans 16:25-26)
“And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world (Greek kosmos) and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15) “.
..of the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world (Greek kosmos), as is bringing forth fruit...,” (Colossians 1:5-6).
And he said unto them ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Greek kitisis) “ (Mark 16:15)
“...from the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature (Greek kitisis) under heaven, of which I, Paul became a minister” (Colossians 1:23)
“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth (Greek ge)”
“But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
‘Their sound has gone out to all the earth (Greek ge), and their words to the ends of the world‘Their sound has gone out to all the earth (Greek ge), and their words to the ends of the world”
So, if we believe Jesus in Matthew, that when the gospel is preached to all the world, then the end (Jesus is Alpha and Omega/end) would come, we see that Paul said it happened.
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