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free will?
YellowStone:
....continued by fingers ..... ;D ;D
Well nothing happened. Kind of like me trying to will a cup of coffee in the morning. It has NEVER worked! :)
We simply CANNOT 'Cause' without action.
I know this is simplistic, but so is the concept when one begins to realize how "unfree" we realy are.
:)
Comments welcome,
Love,
Darren
skydreamers:
Hi seminole,
--- Quote ---No free will but you have to repent? Makes no sense to me. If you have to repent that implies a choice of repent or not to repent. A decision that is squarely on the shoulders of ourselves
--- End quote ---
The thing is, all of the things which we all will need to do throughout our lives, including repentance, is also brought on by God:
Romans 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
We may think we are doing this or that, by our own power, but the truth is, without God teaching, guiding, influencing and yes, even controlling all things, we would literally be nowhere.
Proverbs 16:9 A man's mind plans his way, but the LORD directs his steps.
This has nothing to do with brute force...I'm not sure how you feel, but I often get the reaction that without free will, God then must be some tyrannical dictator forcing us to do this or that against our will. But to me, it is much softer than that. God knows us intimately inside and out, and knows exactly what is needed in our lives and circumstances to mold and bend (like a potter) our will to just where He needs it be at any given time. This includes, as was mentioned on another thread, going against God's will for a time, in order for the eventual teaching and revealing of God's will to all men.
So he doesn't force us, but he knows what will harden our hearts, and he knows what will soften it. He alone knows what it will take to change our minds about what we think, or what we are doing. And I trust fully, that God will in the fullness of all time, soften every heart by the sheer ultimate revelation of his perfect love. When the veil is finally lifted and we see the full truth, then surely every knee will bow, in awe, reverence and LOVE. Even if the process is painful in the meantime. The result will be glorious.
So, yes, we must repent (change our ways and thinking), but how is it possible to do this while engulfed in the carnal mind, when the carnal mind is in hostile opposition to God?? The answer is that it is only possible when God decides it is time to LEAD you to repentance by his exquisitely clever high ways....we may not be aware that He is doing it, or how He is doing it, but the scripture says that it is, nonetheless, God who is bringing about all repentance in man. It's certainly not from our power.
God may decide to keep us under the illusion of free will for a time, but when our eyes our opened and we embrace this truth, this to me, has been REAL freeedom!
I hope this helps,
Peace to you,
Diana
skydreamers:
Hi again,
I just wanted to add a quote from Ray:
Sure, it would not be fun to be forced to, for example, write a book that you don't want to write, but it's wonderful to be inspired to write a book that you can't wait to write!
(taken from the audio on free will)
seminole:
With the leading, from God, towards repentance , still requires a "Yes, I will repent", or "No, I will not repent". Of course you can't type just by thinking of it, you have to choose to put your fingers on the keys and write something with some sense to it. Cause and effect is a given in our lives. Regardless of the cause or effect , we still have to choose an option. The bit about a gun was ridiculous. Sarcasm is not effective when one is asking a question and seeking an answer. I know that Ray uses sarcasm because he says Jesus did but I don't agree with him on that. Come on guys, if this is "Bible-Truths", let there be truth and respect among all those who seek. Just to get back to the analogy of someone holding a gun to me, I still have a choice to make: give over the goods, try to take the person down or try to flee.
Seminole
hillsbororiver:
Seminole,
I am sorry my answer offended you but I was using an extreme example to make a point.
Did you check out the links I attached? Not to mention the link to Ray's paper on free will, sometimes it takes more than one reading to digest the message.
There are some very persuasive arguments showing that "free will" exists mainly in the minds of Babylon.
His Peace to you,
Joe
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