> General Discussions
Is there any truths coming out of the present apostate church today?
jackson:
--- Quote ---Is there any truths coming out of the church. YOU BET! :D The Spirit of Truth is dragging people out. What could be more truthful than that? :)
I think the question was meant as: "Is the church teaching any truth?"
--- End quote ---
This was the point I was trying to make. Sorry for my ambiguity.
Not only that, but also although we have been called out of the church we are not to smit our brothers and sister still being held in the church.
I think we are all of the same mind on this; just looking at it from different perspectives. 8)
Jackson
cherokee:
I would also have to say there are truths in the church.
This is how I have come to understand it.
In the church one learns half(milk) truths.
Once we are dragged out we learn whole(meat) truths.
I just don't think I would appreciate as much the truths(good) I have learned here and from Ray if I had not experienced the lie(evil) in the church.
Ever learning,
Suzie
skydreamers:
--- Quote ---church just served flavored milk!
--- End quote ---
That's funny Darren, I like that! ;D
Also, I think you're probably right, in that many of us are at least wanting to be ready for the meat.....I know I want it, but only God knows if I'm ready ;).
I see the flood as kind of a shadow of our baptism of the spirit (of water)...it was after the flood (this baptism) that God gave humanity meat to eat...and really it was only Noah and his family who first got to partake of "meat"...and they are representative of the Elect as I understand it (the few out of the many....8 people out of likely how many who were living on the earth at that time....wow, very few indeed!)
Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 20:22
22 But Jesus answered and said, You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They said to Him, We are able.
I pray that God make me able....I pray for spiritual meat....but I'm thinking I have only gone through the first baptism (of John) and perhaps not yet baptized by the holy spirit...I don't know, I can't tell. All those people baptized by John did not yet have the holy spirit dwelling in them. This is why I think I still have a ways to go before I can receive the "meat". And I think that the church experience may well be like that first baptism....the second is still to come.
The church experience is extremely valuable and necessary and it begins to show us the need to repent of our sins. Secular people have no concern for such things. Church people are at least aware of sins and are being convicted to confess them.
Mark 1:3-4
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
For this and many other reasons I am thankful for and appreciate the importance of my church experience as well, as I think most everyone here does.
As Suzie said
--- Quote ---I just don't think I would appreciate as much the truths(good) I have learned here and from Ray if I had not experienced the lie(evil) in the church.
--- End quote ---
God seems to teach us most everything by way of contrasts.
Peace,
Diana
seminole:
I admire so much how so many here can reason things out. It's beyond my ability I'm afraid. I don't know if it is just me or if human beings in general have difficulty wrapping their minds around resurrection, eternal , etc. It is not logical but miraculous. There isn't a step 1, step 2 thing to it. The bottom line to me is this: It is not right to get rich off doing anything for God, Jesus is for everyone, He is love in the greatest sense and all will be as the Father has planned. I don't think it right to put people down. I get real confused when I read stuff here about church. It sounds like every person and every church is evil according to many on the forum. To me that is not right. It is judging and I am not supposed to do that. That is for God. I think back to a precious lady when I was little who taught me about Jesus in Sunday School. Was she evil? I say no! She made an impression on my life. She didn't have to take of her time to do that, she did it because she wanted to.
Seminole
skydreamers:
Hi Seminole,
I think I understand your concerns, but I'm also wondering if you are maybe misunderstanding a little about where people are coming from when they are discussing the church.
You say:
--- Quote ---I don't think it right to put people down. I get real confused when I read stuff here about church. It sounds like every person and every church is evil according to many on the forum. To me that is not right. It is judging and I am not supposed to do that. That is for God. I think back to a precious lady when I was little who taught me about Jesus in Sunday School. Was she evil? I say no!
--- End quote ---
I guess I shouldn't speak for everyone, but the way I understand it, is that no one actually considers the people themselves in the church as "evil". It is the teachings of false doctrines that is evil. There is much scriptural evidence to show that Satan dwells in the churches, so much of what is taught stems from evil and false doctrines originating with him. A good paper to read on this would be Ray's paper entitled: The Synagogue of Satan
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html
This does not mean that there aren't many sincere, honest and loving Christians doing the very best they can with what they know. Everyone on this forum was part of a church at one time or another, and most appreciate how the church has helped us get this far. You need to first be IN a church to be CALLED OUT of a church. I for one, have great respect and love for all those who are in a church and I realize fully that only God can open their eyes to see what is false, just as He has done for most of us. To be deceived does not necessarily mean you have an evil character, but you are ensnared by an evil system of religion.
So I don't think anyone is "putting down" others who are still in the church. We are no better...it is only by the grace of God that we've even been given the privilege of understanding certain things. It was not by our own power or works. As you so rightly say:
--- Quote --- I don't know if it is just me or if human beings in general have difficulty wrapping their minds around resurrection, eternal , etc. It is not logical but miraculous.
--- End quote ---
It is only by a miracle and the power of God that we are able to discern any truth. So what have we got to be haughty about? All of us must always remain humble when dealing with God's children, for we are all his creation.
I do think that most, if not all, on this forum feel similar to this. If not, then that is between them and God.
1 Corinthians 10:12
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
I hope I have not confused you more ;)
Peace to you,
Diana
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