> General Discussions
Did Jesus suffer desease and pain before the cross ?
Evan600:
Darren,
I'm not offended at all. I appreciate your insight actually!
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
God bless!
psalmsinger:
I am so thankful for the desire to study this more:) I was looking up the verse where Jesus healed a woman who touched Him and noticed the word "virtue". It is "dunamis" or miraculous power. Jesus could feel the pain and suffering but He could also "know" the healing power. I was thinking that God purposed Jesus to be born physically strong enough in the flesh or He wouldn't have commanded the Israelites (especially those in Mary's geneology) to obey the health laws. As in my other post, I believe "beauty" and "ugly" to be spiritual. I see Him as beautiful and glorious. And no matter what he bore in the flesh, He was spiritually strong and healthy.
Mark 5:30
30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?(KJV)
1411 dunamis (doo'-nam-is);from 1410; force (literally or figuratively); specially, miraculous power (usually by implication, a miracle itself):
KJV-- ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.
The scribes and pharisees wouldn't even lift one of their ten fingers to help bear another's burdens and even laid more spiritual burdens and guilt trips on the people.
Luke 11:46
46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.(KJV)
Spiritually speaking, Jesus considers sinners "sick" and in need of cleaning up from the inside out. It would be nice to have a perfectly healthy pice of flesh but it whithers away after a short time and is not important at all. After upbraiding them on many occasions "Woe unto you hypocrites," etc., I'm thinking the unbelievers figured Jesus needed a spiritual healing, repentance, and salvation. That's certainly the way those that believe the scriptures are treated by the rest of the system. Crazy, that's how I'm thought of ;D
Luke 5:31-32
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.(KJV)
The Great Physician spiritually came to clean the outside of the cup and platter and to heal what comes out of the mouth. The pharisees are offended even this day......
Matt 23:26
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.(KJV)
Matt 15:11-12
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
(KJV)
So the Great Physician came to clean the cup from the inside out and heal what comes out of the mouth not what goes in. I think He came to heal spiritually. We surely need a lot of patience waiting for the finished product don't we? Never fear, the Lord God has plenty of time and patience. Don't you just love it?
Barbara
Redbird:
Barbara,
That is BEAUTIFUL. :) Amen and Amen. :D
Lisa
hillsbororiver:
*Since this topic has apparently split into two threads I will put this reply in both.
I agree that the most important result of topics such as this is that we open our bibles and study the Word for enlightenment.
I tend to disagree that it is an unimportant and insignificant issue in regard to the (physical) sufferings of our Lord and the obstacles in His own path. If He were a perfect (our carnal version) specimen and only truly suffered in Gethsemane and on Calvary then it could be said that He really did not have a true human experience. I believe that what He went through will prove to be the most difficult journey ever experienced by any man, compounded by the knowledge of His former glorious state of existence.
No one will be able to face Jesus in judgment and make the claim "You really did not know suffering, sure you had one tough day but my whole life was full of trials and misery, you knew that once you got past that day you would be back to glory, I went through my whole life in pain, being mocked by others and never enjoying any popularity with men or women. You think you suffered? Yeah right!"
He covered those bases by His humble sufferings.
Peter was crucified upside down, Paul suffered through all sorts of health issues and natural disasters, are we to assume their human experience was more difficult than our Lord's? Will there be anyone at all who can make that claim?
2Co 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Is this really speaking of only one day?
As far as the rejection of Christ by the religeous leaders of His time, I cannot see this being primarily a spiritual rejection as these leaders were totally carnal, looking for a messiah that would lead them to victory over the Romans not to victory over their flesh, they sought a worldly kingdom, not the spiritual Kingdom of God, they were looking for David, a physical warrior and an insatiable womanizer who appealed to the masculinity of men as a leader in war and who was desired by women because of his stature and worldly power.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
okjohnson:
Disease and physical afflictions add to a person's physical appearance. It can cause them to appear gaunt and sickly, limp, etc. This together with the scripture refrence that Ray gave that he was not attractive paints a picture of Jesus that is quite different from what the world has realized through art and hollywood. Many people picture Jesus as a precious baby in a manger, and a physically attractive man. Ray used this truth to show that the multitudes who followed Jesus did not follow him around because he was a hansome oracle as the world portrays. I think this is a truth that needs to be understood and that Ray did a good job showing it.
As far as Jesus bearing our sins , we know he did that and the exact manner is not important. We know he suffered for this. What is important and what Ray taught, is that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son for us, and had to watch the process. God must indeed love us very much if he gave his son to this suffering. I think this was Ray's point.
Orlando
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version