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It seems everyone goes through judgment in their lives here not just the elect.

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Kat:
Hi mrsnacks,

I will say that I believe that lots of people can and do develop good character traits and overcome some sins.  Even for those in the world this is God's doing.  And these good things will not be burned up by God's purifying fire, but will remain. 
But it is a strange work that God is doing with mankind, it is a hard thing to comprehend.
Here is what Solomon-the wisest man to ever live, had determined.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
v. 14 I saw all the deeds that are done under the sun, And behold, the whole is vanity and a grazing on wind." (CLV)

It is the very few that God has begun to deliver and by Christ indwelling can seriously began to overcome the flesh.

Tit 3:3  For we ourselves also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, slaving for various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another.
v. 4  But when the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
v. 5  not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
v. 6  whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
v. 7  that being justified by His grace, we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

gmik:
It rains on the just and unjust.  "Life" happens to all people.

 To me the difference now, is that I know I am powerless to do good or bad, but it is Christ in me, to will and to do of His good pleasure  I can't acknowledge my sin and then say OK I am finally gonna kick this habit or attitude or sin or whatever.  I now see the sin God is dealing w/ me and see it as an idol of the heart and pray that in Gods time and God's way He will allow me to correct it.

 I don't want to hate my neighbor or his barking dog. I don't want to have secret sinful thoughts about kidnapping it- even tho I am jesting-I hope you get the point.  It is not always doing--now, spiritually, it is also in the "thinking".

You can't look at peoples sufferings and say they must be elect cuz they are really bad off. Or, gee, I have had a really easy life so I can't be the elect.  The pottery doesn't know who the Potter made.

skydreamers:

--- Quote ---I don't want to hate my neighbor or his barking dog. I don't want to have secret sinful thoughts about kidnapping it- even tho I am jesting-I hope you get the point.
--- End quote ---


Gena sista,
I can't wait to meet you one day!

Peace,
Diana

gmik:
Well, right back at ya Sis!!! :-*

Hmmmm  Canada is just next door to Michigan! ;)

hillsbororiver:
We often speak of "in" the church or coming "out" of the church when I think it may be that the word church has become confused with and polluted by the doctrines and actions of the men (blind guides) who run them and the sheep who blindly fall in the pit following them.

When we are blessed with the true gift of faith and receive the beginning of understanding the repititious mutterings of the pulpits in the brick and stick temples become impossible to endure, for some these dire warnings and the spiritual hocus pocus such as "alter calls" are intolerable to begin with, they either feel there is no God or that they would rather take their chances with hell than worship a god that would create someone knowing that creation would spend eternity being tortured with no chance of reprieve. Others just feel it is all confusion and maybe even group hypnosis so they respond like the children who saw the emperor really did not have any clothes on and just say "hey, why is the emperor naked, where are his clothes?"  In other words "why does your esteemed god behave worse than any man in history punishing the most trivial sins as much as the most atrocious?"

I do not know how or why God draws each and every individual to Him at one time or another, or at what point the judgments really begin in their/our lives or how many or few stripes anyone actually will receive in this life or in the next age(s).

There may be some folks observing this thread that never really bought into the denominational church thing and are wondering if they are still square pegs trying to fit into a round hole, I know that feeling. What I am trying to say is that I do not believe it is necessary to have been a happy tithe paying Sunday christian who at some point became disillusioned with mainstream churches and now have seen the light, I think one can "come out" of the political state/church system they were born into without ever really embracing it. The trials and temptations, the stumbling & falling, the learning to depend on Christ in everything will be learned by all eventually and the unique paths we all take to Him will never have exactly the same type of experiences along the journey. Below is a response made a long time ago to a similar thread. I thought it would be appropriate here;


There have also been some very profound changes in my life since the Lord began to drag me closer to Him. Until a few months ago I thought this change began just after I "stumbled" upon Bible Truths, in retrospect the change actually began a few years previous to that unforgettable night.

I have had many ups and downs, many setbacks (most of them self inflicted) and some incredibly fortunate ones as well, through all the times of poverty (not only financial) to self sufficiency to prosperity and back to poverty and through the cycle again and again I had this sense of optimism, that things were going to work themselves out no matter what situation I found myself in. Looking back I see that this optimism was actually at the root of many reckless decisions and the cause of much boorish behavior on my part, I might say or do just about anything and expect to be able to come out of it unscathed, others would notice this as well, a woman years ago once remarked "Joe, you could fall in a tub of **** (dung) and come out clean as a whistle, smelling like a rose. I believed it.

About 3 or 4 years ago this optimism started to recede, I was (and still am) in a good marriage, our daughter had graduated from college (since then obtained her Masters Degree) I had (and have) a very good job, earning a comforable living with the freedom to come and go as I please (as long as the Departments I manage meet their goals). I had every reason to be content and comfortable but I was uneasy, unsettled, something was definitely missing, there was a void in me you could drive a truck through.

My solution or diagnosis was that I needed to do something big, something that would outlast me, leave a physical, tangible monument that my daughter and eventual grandchildren could inhererit and live in long after I was gone, I was going to build a beautiful house.

We found the perfect property right on the river, close to everything but surrounded by woods, a park and only one neighbor bordering our property. I got busy on it and the feeling of dread only got worse.

I would have knots in my stomach from the time I woke up in the morning and it got to the point I was self medicating   just to be able to get through the day. There was absolutely no reason for me to be feeling this way, the construction was going smoothly, no disasters at home or at work but I was feeling lower and lower. I convinced myself it was just the stress of building (conveniently forgetting this feeling began before we even bought the property) and it would pass once it was completed. It didn't.

The dread and despair that had no name no cause (that I could see at the time) and no reason became part of my existence, I could hide it behind a mask of jovialness, but I also would explode in anger over some very minor things, my foundation was non existent, in winter I would look look forward to spring, spring to summer, etc. It was too painful living in the present but I had no clue as to why.

We went through a pretty active hurricane season in Florida during '04 and it was expected to be just as bad in '05, it was in the news constantly, meteorologists gleefully prophecysing doom and destruction for all, August 2 '05 I was at my wits end, that was the night I stumbled on Bible Truths. I Googled Revelation/Weather looking for some biblical writings on "end times" weather patterns and the first link was Bible Truths, I have never been able to duplicate that result since.

Ever since that night the despair has given way to an optimism I never knew before, far exceeding the carnal optimism I had since my late teens, a wonderful promise of redemption, of obtaining true life has been my driving motivation rather than accumulating "things." I found that I was walking through His Fire without knowing where I was, or where I was headed, tribulation has not ceased but knowing the Source gives comfort now rather than sorrow.

This has translated into how I perceive others, in the past when I would have to interact with people that had rather despicable personality traits I would either go head to head with them or write them off as "losers," sometimes both. Now I see them as walking through life untethered to anything of real sustainance (our Lord) they are freefalling, grasping, lunging at anything and everything, over reacting to situations because there is no measure in their lives.

I now visualize them as people who are reeling from financial setbacks, unable to meet their obligations worrying about staying afloat day to day even as they have the winning lottery ticket in the pocket of an old jacket, but they forgot about it's purchase and it's location. This winning lottery ticket is how the Lord made me feel when He so graciously revealed His plan and purpose for me. I don't mean to degrade this gift by comparing it to money, but He Himself compares this journey to seeking "treasure," it is that, but so much more too.

This suffering we experience to me is nothing compared to not knowing Him, believing His promise, appreciating His sacrifice and best of all knowing Him more every day. I don't want to minimize what each of us experience in our trials and tribulations but knowing the reason for this purification process should be a source of joy. We are being formed into Sons and Daughters of the Almighty God!

Praise our Lord and His (and our) Father!

Joe   

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