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Jesus coming out of the Father means that Christ was created by God ?
little rock:
so is Christ also wisdom?(proverbs 8:17-32)"i love those who love me,and those who seek me diligently will find me.riches and honour are with me,enduring riches and righteousness.my fruit is better than gold,yes,than fine gold,and my revenue than choice silver.i traverse the way of righteousness,in the midst of the paths of justice,that i may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,that i may fill their treasuries.the Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,before His works of old.i have been established from everlasting(age)from the beginning ,before there was ever an earth.when there were no depths i was brought forth,when there were no fountains abounding with water.before the mountains were settled,before the hills,i was bought forth.while as yet He had not yet made the earth or the fields,or the primal dust of the world.when He prepared the heavens ,I was there,when He drew a circle on the face of the deep,when He established the clouds above,when He strengthened the fountains of the deep.when He assigned to the sea its limit,so that the waters would not transgress His command,when He marked out the foundations of the earth,then I was beside HIm as a master craftsman and I was HIs delight,rejoicing always before HIm rejoicing in His inhabited world and my delight was with the sons of men.now therefore listen to me my children,for blessed are those who keep my ways."
also interesting the verses before speak as a wisdom being a "she".any insight appreciated.
Praise God for he has done (and is still doing) a great and mighty work in me!peace little rock
Kat:
Hi little rock,
Good scripture :)
Whatever attributes that the Father has so does Christ, and whatever you see in Christ is also in the Father, because they are one.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
mrsnacks:
Hi Kat : Why do you think this topic regarding the trinity is such a touchy subject. A subject that will for sure label anyone who doesn't accept the trinity doctrine as a heretic and someone to stay away from. A poison.
I am having a hard time with Jesus being a created being. Jesus having a beginning. So if Jesus was begotten beofre the universe came into existence then time didn't exist so there was no before's or after's right ?
Only eternity. I have no problem with the Holy Spirit not being a third person.
So are the elect begotten ? I know Ray said that God wants a family. Sons and daughters created in His image and likeness.
GODSown1:
wow!!,
its good 2 get a mention! lol!:D Thanks Jer :) & Yes!
much muchLOVE!! Pera
ps. um... sorry but hav no comment on da Thread lol!, answers look & sound Positivly Right :D
BlesSnZ!! xoxoxox
Kat:
Hi mrsnacks,
--- Quote ---Why do you think this topic regarding the trinity is such a touchy subject. A subject that will for sure label anyone who doesn't accept the trinity doctrine as a heretic and someone to stay away from. A poison.
--- End quote ---
Those that believe in the trinity are blind to the truth, God has not given it to them to see yet. They truely believe they are right, and they stand against the truth, which is part of what Christ warned would happen.
Luk 6:22 "Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!
--- Quote ---I am having a hard time with Jesus being a created being. Jesus having a beginning. So if Jesus was begotten before the universe came into existence then time didn't exist so there was no before's or after's right?
--- End quote ---
The way I understand it, Christ was the beginning of God's creation. How much 'time' He was with the Father before He got started on creating the world, I don't know.
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of God's creation'.
God brought Christ into being, that through Him all of the physical world could be created. Christ is who God uses to accomplish His plan for humanity. It was Christ that created the universe, Christ that was the God of the OT. Christ is doing exactly what the Father desires, because they are One, so are in perfect harmony. And Christ is the One who does all things for us, until all are brought to the knowledge of the truth, then He will turn it all back over to His Father.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
v. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
v. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
1Co 15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Now, we are begotten, which is the promise of the inheritance, if we remain faithful to the end.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
v. 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3888.msg29544#msg29544 ------------
There is but one word in the Greek manuscripts to represent "begotten," and "born." Numerous Scriptures tell us that we are given in this life, only the ernest or downpayment of God's Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14). Furthermore, Jesus told Necodemus that when one IS ACTUALLY "born again" he is like the wind (John 3:3-8). Christians are not powerful and invisible as the wind is, in this life. From these two truths, we can establish that we are "begotten" of God's Spirit in this life, but we will not be "BORN of God's Spirit" until the resurrection to immortality (I Cor. 15:42-54).
God be with you,
Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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