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What If?

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hillsbororiver:
Discernment is a subject that comes up rather frequently, as it should if we are truly seeking His treasure that is buried in diverse places.

Are we always prepared to discern His Truths no matter what vessel contains them?

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

These verses seem to be self explanatory but are they? I think most of us have learned that so much scripture that has a valid physical (first) value also has a deeper spiritual value. This may be even more prevalent in the Old Testament but it still holds true in the New Testament.

Isn't it true that it is easier to take admonishment or advice from someone we have an easy repoire with? If we believe God is in control of all things, that He leaves nothing to chance or our own flawed perceptions do you think there are times He uses others that we might not necessarily be drawn to as a means to show us our own weaknesses or new (to us) revelations?

If we believe we are sincere in seeking His will is it possible to reject an answer from Him because we are not particularly fond of or perceive to have a "loving" relationship with a brother or sister?

Here we have our Lord stating that even evil men give good things to their own, I am sure that encompasses taking care of their own kids, friends and those who show them respect, gratitude or reverence, but how do these same folks react to a difference of opinion or an act they do not embrace or want? Is this another way we are tested? A way to either separate His Spirit within us from our carnal nature or displace our carnal nature with His Spirit?

What if we were to pray for an answer to a problem or a question and the answer was revealed through someone we were not really drawn to or tend to think is unworthy in some form or fashion, what if the Lord willed that was the person He was answering our prayer through? He has done many a "strange" (to our way of thinking) thing, has He not?

Maybe there are too many questions posed here but answer or respond to as many as you may want, this is not a test!  ;) 

I was thinking about this the last few days and of course any input would be greatly appreciated.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Robin:
If I feel something welling up in me from what someone else posts I know I need to take a look at me. If I don't like something about someone else I usually know that the same thing I dislike about them is something in myself. It is usually pride that kicks up every time. It's like looking in a mirror and blaming it all on the mirror. This is not the same as discerning truth that someone posts. This is more about the messenger.

I believe it relates to this scripture.

Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.


I am still guilty of doing this sometimes and try to catch it immediately and ask God to show me my own carnality and ask him to deal with it within ME and not the person who is triggering it. The more God deals with ME the less I feel judgment toward others and I'm more able to listen to what they have to say and respond in a loving manner. I always find that it is me that needs to find repentance, not the person who is triggering my pride.

Even people who don't trigger me can speak truth that is initially offensive until I can digest it and work it through. Truth IS offensive to our carnal nature and I'm so glad for that. God doesn't let up until he brings me to repentance.

The answers to my prayers are usually quite different than what I expected. God gives me true answers and not the answers that satisfy the idols of my heart. It has not been a pleasant experience. Some of the people he used in my life were like fingernails on a chalk board.

I hope this was not off topic.

Thanks,
MG

ciy:
Joe and MG

I agree.  I am also aware that I may be in the middle of not only my trial or purging, but I may be part of someone else's trial or purging.  What God has caused me to do was not only for my understanding, but I must be patient and realize that it is all working in all.
Eve could have thought, "I really messed up, but I even messed up Adam's life too.  If it had not been for me Adam would be fine."  (This may be a weak example, but I think it works) No Eve was caused to eat and also she was caused to cause Adam to eat. 
This thought is a thought that really puts me at peace.  Sometimes I am Eve and sometimes I am Adam.

CIY

YellowStone:
Dear brother Joe,

Your post is both insightful and sobering. I thank the Spirit for whom words you spoke.

I very much liked your inclusion of the evil helping their loved ones; this fact is so often over looked.

1Jo 3:17   If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?
 
1Jo 3:18   Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
 
1Jo 3:19   This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence

Could the words of John also reflect Spiritual Understanding and if one sees a brother in need but has no pity on him, where is the love? How should one respond to to evil? Should one lash out in defence, or turn the other cheek, knowing full well that the road is narrow and the path is rough and all is of God.

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.  

Mat 5:40  And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also.

Mat 5:41  And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

This sounds like wonderful advice, there can be no ill feelings, animosity or hostility if we have used our ability to discern correctly, not by emotions of the yet carnal mind, but rather by Spirit of Truth for it is this Spirit that allows us to see things through different eyes. This is how we can we turn our other cheek, for any attack on us can and should be seen for what it is; an opportunity to show the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness (Gal 5:22)

This is why Christ continues by stating:

Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Remember the days perhaps long ago :)   When one had the eyes of a child, their was magic and wonder everywhere. One had not yet learned of responsibility, everything was right there for ones enjoyment and one could marvel at the simplest things. It is with such eyes that one sees spiritually. The same magical world appears, beauty that may have been over looked for years prior, is suddenly everywhere one turns. It's all wondrous, because one knows full well that is free to be enjoyed. Enjoyed, because one knows that all responsibility belongs to God; their is no more: I, Me, My or Mine.

One with childlike spiritual eyes, upon hearing someone speaking, does not automatically assume that it is a personal attack; on the contrary, because with the spirit their is no "I". One cannot get angry without the emotional attachment of Me, Myself and I.

So what is the fruit of the spirit?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness

Clearly any word out of ones mouth or action towards EVEN an evil person that does not align with the above, is not indicative of turning the other cheek.

Joe, as you asked: "Are we always prepared to discern His Truths no matter what vessel contains them?"

The carnal in one may shout YES, but the proof is in the fruit and aligns perfectly with a proverb of old.

Pro 16:21 The wise in heart are called discerning, and pleasant words promote instruction.

Thank you so much for a very discerning thread Joe. You have provided a wonderful, opportunity to fully realize that all is of God, and all is for our SPIRITUAL benefit.

Your brother in Christ,

Darren

hillsbororiver:
Dear MG, CIY & Darren,

Thank you for your consideration and replies, you know the things we are speaking of are not new and God has been showing this about ourselves even from Genesis when the jealousy of Cain and of Joseph's brothers had some very negative consequences, the anguish of the perpetrators became just as real as the suffering of the objects of their jealousy.

Gen 42:21  And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.
 
This does not always stem from jealousy, obviously, but contention or even being a "respecter of men" by reason of compatible personalities or similar circumstances in life or any reason is something to be wary of, possibly blinding us or being a witness against ourselves.

Deu 1:16  And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
 
Deu 1:17  Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Deu 1:18  And I commanded you at that time all the things which ye should do.

There are times when there are real issues to be dealt with in regard to how something is said or done and when a wrong may be more than just a perception, when that is the case we have the Word of our Lord to guide us.

Mat 18:15  Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.

His Peace to you,

Joe

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