> General Discussions
Christ's death and his spirit
chrissiela:
Rocky,
Sorry if I am just confusing you; I know how hard it can be to understand and while I think that I do understand it, I cannot "guarantee" that I understand it properly or completely. And I am certainly not at all confident in my ability to 'verbalize' it well.
But, no I do not see Christ as being "separate" from the Father. I see them as ONE. Christ is the WORD of God made flesh. The best way that I can see it and understand it is that God SPOKE (His "word") and by/through His "Word" (which became Christ in the flesh) all things were created.
At the time that Christ came in the flesh, He "came OUT FROM" the Father... and at the time that He died He "returned TO" to the Father and the glory that He had with the Father before the world was.
In this, I think there is a distrinction between the Father and the Son, in that the Son is not the Father; He is the Word of God and that which "came out of" God to dwell among men and reveal the Father to His creation... He being the only and express image of the Father. But also one with the Father.
I know, it's like talking in circles.... :shock: :?
Everything that IS - things that we see and don't see - were created by God through His Word, manifest to us in the flesh as Christ. The things that DO appear were created from things that DO NOT appear (things invisible).
As best as I can see it right now, ALL things 'came out from' God the Father (who ONLY is invisible and eternal). This is how we are His "offspring" and how we can be called "gods" and why it is that "IN HIM we live and move and have our being".
We do not all have His Holy Spirit, but we are ALL His creation and we all have His 'breathe' of life in us - that makes us a living soul.
When we die our spirit (which came FROM Him) returns to Him. And in the end ALL will be recipients of ALL that the Father has to give and He will be "all in all"... giving us 'more' (if you will) of His spirit to be in us, so that we might ALL be ONE (in spirit) with Him.
But Christ is and always will be the ONLY "image" of the Father that we can see. It is by and through Him that the Father is revealed to us.
I hope that doesn't just confuse you more.... :oops: :oops:
Chrissie
rvhill:
--- Quote from: Shoeman ---Wasn't Christ supposed to have descended into Hell before his ascension into Heaven?
--- End quote ---
It depend on the meaning of hell or hades. Was hades just death or was it something more?
rocky:
--- Quote from: chrissiela ---Rocky,
Sorry if I am just confusing you; I know how hard it can be to understand and while I think that I do understand it, I cannot "guarantee" that I understand it properly or completely. And I am certainly not at all confident in my ability to 'verbalize' it well.
But, no I do not see Christ as being "separate" from the Father. I see them as ONE. Christ is the WORD of God made flesh. The best way that I can see it and understand it is that God SPOKE (His "word") and by/through His "Word" (which became Christ in the flesh) all things were created.
At the time that Christ came in the flesh, He "came OUT FROM" the Father... and at the time that He died He "returned TO" to the Father and the glory that He had with the Father before the world was.
In this, I think there is a distrinction between the Father and the Son, in that the Son is not the Father; He is the Word of God and that which "came out of" God to dwell among men and reveal the Father to His creation... He being the only and express image of the Father. But also one with the Father.
I know, it's like talking in circles.... :shock: :?
Everything that IS - things that we see and don't see - were created by God through His Word, manifest to us in the flesh as Christ. The things that DO appear were created from things that DO NOT appear (things invisible).
As best as I can see it right now, ALL things 'came out from' God the Father (who ONLY is invisible and eternal). This is how we are His "offspring" and how we can be called "gods" and why it is that "IN HIM we live and move and have our being".
We do not all have His Holy Spirit, but we are ALL His creation and we all have His 'breathe' of life in us - that makes us a living soul.
When we die our spirit (which came FROM Him) returns to Him. And in the end ALL will be recipients of ALL that the Father has to give and He will be "all in all"... giving us 'more' (if you will) of His spirit to be in us, so that we might ALL be ONE (in spirit) with Him.
But Christ is and always will be the ONLY "image" of the Father that we can see. It is by and through Him that the Father is revealed to us.
I hope that doesn't just confuse you more.... :oops: :oops:
Chrissie
--- End quote ---
Yeah!!! that was good, it clicked. What you said makes sense. thanks.
gmik:
Thanks Chrissie (again). Good stuff!
Michael A.:
--- Quote ---Jesus is not the Father, but He "came OUT FROM the Father". They are one and they share the same spirit.
--- End quote ---
I understand what you're trying to say, but in fact Jesus is now the Father, or as Isaiah penned: the Everlasting Father. This is why He now says that for us who overcome He (Jesus) will give to us to sit down in His throne with Him, even as His Father gave to His throne to Christ.
It helps if you think in the context of FAMILY, rather than in the greek sense of "comprehension".
A mans word comes up from his heart. Out of the abundance of a man's heart he speaks. The thoughts and intents of the heart are communicated from one being to another with "voice" which is the animation of those thoughts and intents with "breath".
As you read the bible you will note some patterns, for example the connection of the Father with the "will of God". Not my will... Thy Will be done. I came to do Thy will. etc....
Jesus; the Word of God came forth from the depths of God's heart, and God's Breath, the Spirit of God is the One who gives Life to Jesus, and also imparts Life to whomsoever receives Jesus; God's word.
The Father wills it, the Son creates it, the Spirit gives it life.
Man was made in the image and likeness of God. Our word too comes from the depths of our being, where only a mans spirit knows his own thoughts and intents. This is the realm of heaven. When the heavens opened up to Jesus, He also then knew the thoughts of all men. For the Spirit of God searches all things, even the thoughts of God, and knows all things, even the thoughts of all men.
Since a man's word comes forth from a man's heart, you could say that your word is "born" out of your heart. See? In such a manner your word is your own "son" and is sent forth to accomplish what is in your heart. So when God created He spoke, and the word from His heart that went forth and created is Jesus, and the Holy Breath of God is what sent Jesus forth, and what gives life to Jesus, even the Life of God himself.
Do you see?
There is also a succession of Life, from Father to Son, and it is the Spirit who ensures this succession, carrying that very Life to each new generation.
But the life that the Spirit breathed into mankind is NOT the same Life that redeems man when he receives Jesus Christ. The former is created life, the latter is God's Life; also called "Zoe". Therefore the Life man inherits from Father when he becomes a son of God is eternal Life, and it cannot die, for it is the very Life of God Himself.
Does this help?
This is why Apostle means "sent one". Those of us whom God personally "sends forth" are moved into action by the will of God, and the word of God and the breath of God.
Just like a "last will and testament" the executor stands in the place of the one who passed on to carry out his will, his last will. Angels are executors of God's word. Jesus is The Angel of the Lord, the original executor and the captain of the army of the host of heaven. When He came to earth it was to eredeem and restore man to God's will, to accomplish God's will.
How do you know anyone's will? Why, by their WORD of course. How do you know what their word means? You must first receive their word in the same Spirit it was given in. If you do not submit your own will to their will, then you will not be able to receive their word and understand them, according to their intent. Then you will misunderstand them, and also their intent. In other words, you must submit your own will to doing their will, and submit your whole heart to doing their will. Then and only then can you truly understand their word, and also accomplish their will - but then, you also receive the power of the will to execute it.
See?
I wrote a story about this many years ago for my small children, to help them to receive the teaching about the Godhead, and about Life as God created it, and how it continues according to God's will.
Would any one like to hear it?
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