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Author Topic: Question on Phileo love  (Read 4731 times)

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rocky

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Question on Phileo love
« on: June 12, 2007, 10:51:58 PM »

I just read the article by Ray on love. 

Here is a part of his article (highlighting is mine)

....Remember I gave you two definitions, and I said agapao in like a one-way street.  The good Samaritan did not expect anything in return, for helping that man, who was dying on the side of the road, itís a one-way love. 

But then I said, this phileo, this brotherly love, this affectionate love, this give you a kiss on the cheek love, this is like a two-way street.  That the reason we have this love for a close friend or wife and children, is because they reciprocate.  You hug them, they hug you back.  You do a favor for them, they do a favor for them back.  You help them, they help you, you feel sad, when they feel sad, they feel sad when you feel sad.  Thatís why you get so close, you support each other, you love each other, youíre physically in contact, you see.
My daughter is 18, she still sits on my lap, thereís nothing wrong with that.

But, so I told you that there is a scripture, that actually tells you that?  That thatís what phileo is, and thatís why phileo love exist.  Yes there is a scripture, this is a remarkable scripture, John 16:27  f"or the Father Himself loves(phileo) you, because you loved Me and have believed that I came from God."There it is.  Why does God love us, His elect?

Because we loved Jesus Christ and to the Father that is the same as loving Him.  Because no man has ever seen the Father or heard His voice at any time.  But Jesus has made Himself known, in Spirit, in the Comforter and through His Word, you see.

So thereís your phileo love and itís Godís definition.  God agape love us, even if we split in His face.  But thatís the reason He phileo loves us and He loves us and not the world.  He does not, so phileo the world, it is not in there.  He agapeís the world and not phileo them.

The only places you will see God phileo anyone, is His Son and us, the elect, no one else.  Those who reciprocates, He loves us because He said (He is talking to His disciples now),  My Father loves you and they didnít know that before.  But He said, I am telling you, My Father loves you, and the reason is, because you love Me.  Iíve given them Your Word, Iíve been teaching you, itís the same as the Father.  The words that I speak , Christ said, they are the Fatherís.  The things that I do, the works that I do, itís all the Father.  And you excepted and reciprocated and love Me for it, and that is why My Father loves you.
There it is.


So here is my question,

Phileo love at first glance to me seems to be carnal love, love based on reciprocity.  But Phileo love can not be carnal love, because it comes from the Father, and he himself phileo loves us. 

And since it is God who works in us to do his good will, when we phileo love someone it comes from God.  It is God working through us.

But many, or nearly all people, believers and non believers, phileo love someone, whether that be there kids, wife, mom, dad, dog, etc. 

So does this mean that the God is working through all by his spirit? 

yet another interesting point, is that the fruit of the spirit is agape love. 

Is phileo love not a fruit of the spirit? 

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 11:09:29 PM »

Hi Rocky,

Your question got me thinking about these questions, all love originates from God the Father, I think we can all agree there.

Did/does the Father love/loved Jesus more than Judas who betrayed Him, or the Pharisees who hardened their hearts toward Christ?

Do you believe it is all the same (love) to Him?

How can any real true love be carnal? Not lustful temporal love but the type of love where one would sacrifice even their own life for another? Where in scripture does it state any real love is carnal, for that matter where did Ray state any real love is carnal?

To truly love and be loved is a gift from God not a carnal urge to be burned out.

His Peace to you,

Joe

P.S. All humanity gets a taste of phileo love. Through His grace may attain the "charity" toward all which is agape love and the greatest of the fruits of the spirit as it encompasses all.


2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
 
2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
 
2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity26.
 
2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

G26
ἀγάπη
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.

Peter seems to be saying there is a progression to charity (agape) through faith in Him, this is not inherent in the natural (carnal) man.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 11:25:30 PM by hillsbororiver »
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rocky

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 11:20:39 PM »

Hi Joe, I can't get the quote button to work so I'll do in colors.

Joe writes:

Your question got me thinking about these questions, all love originates from God the Father, I think we can all agree there.

I do agree, that is what i find amazing, that God is working in this age, in the non elect to love, at least phileo love

Did/does the Father love/loved Jesus more than Judas who betrayed Him, or the Pharisees who hardened their hearts toward Christ?

I think after reading Ray's article, he doesn't agape love Jesus more that Judas, but he does phileo love Jesus more than Judas

Do you believe it is all the same (love) to Him?

no, see above

How can any real true love be carnal?

even phileo, that was my point.  Amazing to me, that a carnal man can phileo someone, when that is true love, God's phileo love


Not lustful temporal love but the type of love where one would sacrifice even their own life for another?

Seems to me Joe, you are equating true love as only agape love, not phileo love.  But even more amazing to me, is where a non believer will sacrifice his life to save another, which appears to me to be agape love

Where in scripture does it state any real love is carnal, for that matter where did Ray state any real love is carnal?

no where that I know.  Making my point, that I find it weird that a carnal man can Love, but it appears to me they can, at least phileo love

To truly love and be loved is a gift from God not a carnal urge to be burned out.

His Peace to you,

Joe

hope my post makes more sense now Joe.  Basically, i feel perplexed that man can love (phileo or agape, and not be a believer.  But to me it sure seems that this can be the case.  What do you think?

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 11:40:14 PM »


hope my post makes more sense now Joe.  Basically, i feel perplexed that man can love (phileo or agape, and not be a believer.  But to me it sure seems that this can be the case.  What do you think?


Yes Rocky it does,

Can we perceive phileo love as a shadow of the more encompassing pure agape love we hope to one day attain?

Which is the greater more spiritual love? I think in a sense we can equate the breath of His spirit of life which he gives all men now as being a shadow of the Spiritual Life He will eventually give all His Sons and Daughters.

I don't think we can call the breath (spirit) that God breathed into Adam (and all men) carnal but the Spiritual Sonship we aspire to greatly exceeds this first breath He gave us.

His Peace to you,

Joe
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rocky

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 12:00:44 AM »

Intersting Joe. 

I'm not sure about the shadow idea, that being,  phileo is the shadow of the spiritual (agape). 


1Co 16:22 If anyone doth not dearly love (phileo) the Lord, let him be anathema that is, "accursed" : Maran atha that is, "The Lord, cometh" .

Gal 3:10 For, as many as are of works of law, are, under a curse,ófor it is writtenóAccursed, is everyone that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them

Heb 10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

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gmik

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 01:43:17 AM »

Tonite I attended a Red Cross Volunteers dinner to honor the volunteers in our county for the last year. (my hubby is the volunteer not me).

Anyway, many of the people are not professing Christianity by any means, but they do have some kind of love, somewhere, that motivates them to want to help and serve others.

Paul says if you have not love and do amazing things, it doesn't amount to much (my paraphrase).

 We all know people who lay down their lives for others but may not know God.  many people "love" their neighbor and prove it all the time by their works.  Some gung ho "Christians" wouldn't lift a finger to help someone.

So, the agnostic who drowns trying to save a child in the water, isn't that some type of love??  I think the LOF will sort that out.
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jER

  • Guest
Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 01:46:33 AM »

We are blessed with the Love(s) of God. Therefore, continue in the truth of His Word.
And, the fruit of His Spirit!

"Love Never Fails"

- Jer
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 02:15:17 AM »

Hi Rocky,

Your question got me thinking about these questions, all love originates from God the Father, I think we can all agree there.

Did/does the Father love/loved Jesus more than Judas who betrayed Him, or the Pharisees who hardened their hearts toward Christ?

Do you believe it is all the same (love) to Him?

How can any real true love be carnal? Not lustful temporal love but the type of love where one would sacrifice even their own life for another? Where in scripture does it state any real love is carnal, for that matter where did Ray state any real love is carnal?

To truly love and be loved is a gift from God not a carnal urge to be burned out.

His Peace to you,

Joe

P.S. All humanity gets a taste of phileo love. Through His grace may attain the "charity" toward all which is agape love and the greatest of the fruits of the spirit as it encompasses all.


2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
 
2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
 
2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity26.
 
2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

G26
ἀγάπη
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.

Peter seems to be saying there is a progression to charity (agape) through faith in Him, this is not inherent in the natural (carnal) man.

Hi Joe, I just saw the last part you added later through edit, super cool.  I think you may be right.  In this verse,

2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity26.

brotherly kindness is from this greek word

G5360
φιλαδελφία
philadelphia
fil-ad-el-fee'-ah
From G5361; fraternal affection: - brotherly love (kindness), love of the brethren.

has to be a derivative of phileo (philadelphia)

cool. 

thanks for the add on.

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 08:27:29 AM »

You are very welcome Rocky,

I was adding/editing during that period of time you were not able to use the "Quote" feature, a few minutes after my post I remembered the "Progression to Charity" thread and wasn't sure if I should link it here or just post the verses from 2Peter 1:4-8.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3802.0.html

His Peace to you,

Joe   
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gmik

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 02:49:50 AM »

Thanks for the reminder link Joe.  It was good to go back and read.  Its good enough for a thorough study!!  Hope many will go back and read.
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seminole

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 10:41:20 AM »

I don't agree that in marriage and children , the love is only because of reciprocation. If you love your husband or wife and kids because of something you think they will do for you that's wrong. You love completely or you don't. They can stab you in the back (figuratively) but you still love them. If you love someone because you think they can do something for you that's not love. It reminds me of politics.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 12:27:38 PM »

Seminole,

If you are married your wife appealed to you first, before marriage. You were attracted to her for a combination of reasons and you were drawn to a committment to bind your affection by matrimony. Your wife had attributes you desired before you loved her. As you go through life together hopefully the love becomes stronger as you provide for each other and withstand and overcome the obstacles life presents, as you do these things for each other the love becomes stronger and deeper.

There is a difference in definitions the English word "love" is used for a few different Greek words.

Here are a few;
 

G25
ἀγαπάω
agapaō

ag-ap-ah'-o
Perhaps from ἄγαν agan (much; or compare [H5689]); to love (in a social or moral sense): - (be-) love (-ed). Compare G5368.


G26
ἀγάπη
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.



G5368
φιλέω
phileō
fil-eh'-o
From G5384; to be a friend to (fond of [an individual or an object]), that is, have affection for (denoting personal attachment, as a matter of sentiment or feeling; while G25 is wider, embracing especially the judgment and the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety: the two thus stand related very much as G2309 and G1014, or as G2372 and G3563 respectively; the former being chiefly of the heart and the latter of the head); specifically to kiss (as a mark of tenderness): - kiss, love.



G2309
θέλω, ἐθέλω
thelō  ethelō
thel'-o, eth-el'-o
Either the first or the second form may be used. In certain tenses θελέω theleō  thel-eh'-o (and ἐθέλέω  etheleō eth-el-eh'-o) are used, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active voice option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive voice acquiescence in objective considerations), that is, choose or prefer (literally or figuratively); by implication to wish, that is, be inclined to (sometimes adverbially gladly); impersonally for the future tense, to be about to; by Hebraism to delight in: - desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, -ling [ly]).

Do you understand this quote from Jesus?

Mat 7:11  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


Joe

 
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seminole

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2007, 04:17:04 PM »

I think I do understand that quote from Jesus. I understand that when you first meet your wife there is a physical attraction and it develops from that.  I believe that as you live together and face many tough times the love continues to grow. The truest love is when you love a person no matter if they can do anything for you or not. My grand-parents in law (?)
were a picture of this. His wife was sick and could do nothing for either of them. The physical attributes that would be considered attractive were no longer there but he served his wife 24/7 out  of love.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Question on Phileo love
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2007, 05:50:32 PM »

Exactly Nole,

They experienced a two way street their entire lives, their love matured through trials and hardships (as all good marriages do) and the love that grew was stronger later in life than in the beginning. They learned to totally trust each other because they both experienced the loyalty and the sacrifices made by each of them through their journey together. Had one or the other been a cheating, lying, spouse beating, drug addict, alcoholic who was in and out of jail and never willing to hold down employment it is a safe bet they would not be sharing this type of love in old age.

This is a beautiful, wonderful love yes, but an unconditional love? I am afraid not. It was built on years and years of doing things and being there for each other (and their family).

God's love for us has absolutely nothing to do with what we can do (or did do) for Him. Because we cannot accomplish anything on our own, we are here (this earth) to learn and appreciate the fact that we are totally dependent on Him, totally.

His Peace to you,

Joe

 
 
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