> General Discussions
Loving your enemy.
excellenttrader:
Does the answer change any if you scale the question back just a bit? Instead of looking at 9/11, etc. how about this...
If Jesus is walking down the street and somebody comes up to Him and hits Him, then He turns the other cheek.
But what if He's walking down the street with His mother, Mary, and somebody comes up and hits her?
What does He do? Does Jesus look at Mary and tell her to turn the other cheek for this attacker or does Jesus defend her and beat this attacker down?
Is He showing love to his mother by not defending her? Is Jesus showing love to the attacker by not stopping him/her from committing this crime?
Could Jesus be showing love for both by defending her and beating this attacker as necessary to stop them from hurting her anymore?
Mike
mrsnacks:
I think so.
I do have a question. Didn't Jesus tell the disciples to carry a sword at one point in the gospels ? He didn't tell Peter to not carry his sword before the incident in the garden.
So God is responsible for wars ? Even God caused and raised up armies against other nations such as Israel. So He is behind it all. This is a bit confusing to me. Take for instance the Father dragging us to Him. If God didn't drag us we wouldn't come right ? So if God didn't raise up armies to fight other countries- would wars happen ? I know we would say yes because men's hearts are evil and wars are inevitable so why does God have to raise or cause a nation to rise up against another nation ?
If someone came up to my mother and started to beat on her - the loving thing for me to do is to stop him at all costs. That is being loving to my mom and a loving thing to do to the attacker. By beating him and putting him away is a loving thing to do to the potential would be victims of this criminal. That would be me laying my life down for my mom. I am risking getting hurt or killed doing this. To not do anything would be evil.
Kent:
I sure do hope that I am not around someone that uses the "turn the other cheek" argument when I need some help, or when one of their loved ones is attacked.
Even Ray says that we have the right to self defense in one of his letters.
Self defense has nothing to do with hate. It has everything to do with stopping an attack.
Anything else is cowardice, IMO
Kat:
God being totally sovereign, do you think He is not only aware, but caused any situation that you might find yourself in. If someone tried to do you or your mother harm, do you think this is out of His control?
Is there a single scripture of Christ or any of His believers defending themselves?
But there are scripture that state otherwise.
Here is the email on self defense.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1516.0.html
> What do you believe the bible says about personal self
> defense? If you can not answer me now I would like to
> see something on your site in the future. Thank you.
Dear Michael:
The Bible says: "But I say unto you, That ye RESIST NOT EVIL, but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matt. 5:39).
God be with you,
Ray
--------------------------------------------------
1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
v. 13 Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good?
v. 14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: Craig on July 03, 2007, 10:34:21 AM ---
--- Quote ---I think if a person is brought to Christ and begins to have Christ living in him/her- then and only then will he/ she change from ungodliness to being Christlike. It is a process but there is no other way. Any other change is at a superficial level.
--- End quote ---
Bravo, Snack you nailed that.
Remember Christ said live by the sword and die by the sword.
You can never forcefully change anyones opinion by beating it into them. Or threatening them (hell), they are just the same old filthy rags. On the outside they may agree with you and want to be "one of the guys" but inside they are the same ole beast.
Craig
--- End quote ---
Craig, perhaps I am slow and if I have read your post wrong, then please forgive me.
People who live in glass houses should never throw stones. Oh it is so easy condemning our leaders and military for "killing" our enemies, while we live in a nation that has only ever had one serious attack on the main land in it's history. (forgive me if I am wrong, I have only been a citizen for 2 years) Is not the peace, saftey and the right to even converse online in this forum a direct result of the many decisions and sacrifices made by many commanders and countless young men and women who gave their life for the freedom we enjoy.
Yet there is more to this than simply letting others do our fighting for us, for are we not instructed to be in subjection to our earthly rulers whom are there and ordained by God himself. Who is one denying, if one refuses to serve in the millitary for "scriptual" reasons.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake
Well this is how I see it. :)
Love in Christ,
Darren
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