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Need some help with this please scholars!

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ertsky:
Hi EZE


--- Quote ---His beef is that if those who are *lost* are in the 'fires of Gehenna' or 'lake of fire', then why is death and Hades also in there?
Will they also come out purified?
That is his argument and I can see his point to a certain extent.

Does that make sense?
EZE
--- End quote ---


sorry about that EZE i was a bit oblique there, thank goodness the other posters had it more together. (good posts as usual there folks)

now i'm thinking on this verse

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God all in all and hades and death done away with ?

i don't see hades and death coming out only going in, just like my flesh into the fiery trials, it goes in and is burnt away, not coming out, theres plenty more apparently to fuel the next fiery trial LOL! .

hope that isn't too off the track

well i hope your friend sees more than i do before the day is done :)

f

love_magnified:
Here is how I see that:

Do not fear him who can kill your body, but not lose your soul in judgement. Isn't it interesting that Christ does not say kill your body AND kill your soul, but kill your body and appolumi your soul? If killing a soul is what Christ was talking about why use a different word? It is because Christ is not talking about ending the existence of a soul, but judging a soul, and His judgements are as fire. This judgement does not have the effect of killing a soul (or Christ would have said that) but it has the effect of being cast away from him. Christ is actually talking about judging his own disciples. Remember the parable of the fish? The kingom is like a net. Within the net are fish, some good some wicked. Some fish will be tossed out of the kingdom. BUT if you read Romans 8, we see that the whole purpose for the ones who have NOT been tossed out is to recieve all of Creation into glorious liberty.

hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: EZE ---Hey guys...
Could anybody possibly help with this one?
I'm in the middle of an online debate with a friend re UR.
He threw a scripture at me that spoke of being 'destroyed' in the fires of Gehenna.
I in turn pointed out to him the the word translated as 'Destroy' is in fact 'Apollumi' and is elsewhere translated as 'Lost'.

He said the following -
START QUOTE

But contextually it would seem not to make any sense to say they are lost.

Do not fear those that can kill the body, but fear him who can lose your soul and body in Gehenna?

And if Hades is cast into the Gehenna and that is called the second death It would appear that your justification of this is trying to force your view into a box that does not fit it.
Whether you take Gehenna and Hades to be literal at this point, would not seem to matter, as their is a destruction that is called or likened unto death at this point...

END QUOTE

The thing is  - I can SEE HIS POINT.

Any help would be appreciated people
God bless - EZE
--- End quote ---


Hi EZE, you really should study this paper with your bible at your side before engaging in any more debates, do you understand "spirtual brimstone?" "Two Judgements by Fire?" "The Lord is a Consuming Fire?"

There is much to be learned and understood here;

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

I know from personal experience that debating can be a carnal exercise with no real persuasion being accomplished. I started asking myself what my motive was, I did not like the answer. There are times when people who have different views but are humbly seeking wisdom together can accomplish great things but more often than not, at least what I have seen it becomes more of a goal "to be right!"

If I have come across as lecturing please forgive me, I only believe that if you read and reread the "Lake of Fire" series (especially the one I posted since it addresses your original question) you will gain a knowledge of His plan that is truly exhilarating.

Joe

bobf:
Read Daniel 4 as a kind of parable of God "destroying" a soul.  God destroyed the king's carnal self and raised up a new man in its place who was humble and loved God.

The tares are removed from God's kingdom which is within you and burned.  The tares are not converted into wheat.  They are destroyed.  Your old carnal man is destroyed and you are raised a new man in Christ.

The prodigal son had his soul APOLLUMI before he was made alive.  All must APOLLUMI their soul in order to find it.  All of our souls were carnal.

bobf:

--- Quote from: Laren ---Not sure how Gehenna versus LOF relate, but something i've been thinking on re: LOF.
--- End quote ---


Gehenna is a literal place but Jesus uses it as a symbol for the lake of fire.


--- Quote from: Laren ---This doesn't go along with totally what Ray teaches, but is something i've been thinking about.  Maybe what goes into the lake of fire doesn't ever come out, maybe it is destroyed forever;   The carnal mind is thrown into it and dies.  I don't think the lake of fire is to convert the carnal mind, it is to destroy it.
--- End quote ---


That is my understanding too and as far as I know, that is how Ray and Mike teach it.

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