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Deborah-Leigh:
With endurance and patience here is an excerpt from Ray:

Notice also Peter's stern warning regarding what was happening in the past in his time, and what was prophesied to continue until our time and beyond:

"But there were false prophets [a ‘prophet’ can mean one who speaks in behalf of God’] also among the people, even as there shall be [future] false teachers among you [and among US], who privily shall bring in [Gk: smuggle in] DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY shall follow their pernicious [destructive] ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of [Gk: ‘blasphemed’]" (II Pet. 2:1-2). http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

So for me, Patience, that fruit of the Spirit that is used to peddle and make merchandise of Gods Word and meanings and is idolised and vehemently guarded as meaning ....tolerance for evil. Kindness to the wolves is cruelty to the sheep.

Paul said : Heb 5:11 Concerning this we have much to say which is hard to explain, since you have become dull in your spiritual hearing and sluggish even slothful in achieving spiritual insight. 12 For even though by this time you ought to be teaching others, you actually need someone to teach you over again the very first principles of God's Word. You have come to NEED MILK, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feel on milk is obviously inexperienced and unskilled in the doctrine of righteousness, of conformity to the divine will in purpose, thought and action, for he is a mere infant not able to talk yet!

My point is this. There are false teachers among us....US. As Paul notes, those on milk can not even talk yet. Those who can speak...should they keep quiet?  I do not think so. In fact Scripture warns against keeping back the truth. I have been blessed by the truth via Newbies in this very Forum!

1 Peter 2:7 To you then who believe, who adhere to , trust in, and rely on Him, is the preciousness; but for those who disbelieve, it is true, The very Stone which the builders rejected has become the main Cornerstone, and A Stone that will cause stumbling and a Rock that will give offense; they stumble because they disobey and DISBELIEVE GOD'S WORD, as those who reject him WERE DESTINED, APPOINTED TO DO.

Joe....you quoted OT. I noticed that. I do not think the patience in the NT means tolerance of evil I think it means patience under persecution, opposition and rejection. In other words, patience that bleeds out of the endurance from pain in following Christ rather than taking the pup wolf by the paw and leading it into the sheep fold and ignoring or berating the sheep for bleating while silencing the lambs as some would do!

Diana

I will not keep quiet unless and until the Lord directs. He will have His way it it might be sooner than later...read on... :D

Rodger

Thank you for you post. To add

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm I quote from Ray: "Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do THESE [these vessels of dishonor in God’s House] also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the truth. But they shall proceed [Gk: ‘increase, advance, grow’] no further [Just as Jannes and Jambres could resist God only so far and no further, so too, will these corrupt-minded reprobates in God’s House cease to deceive God’s church, when God makes all secrets known to all]: for their folly shall be manifest unto all, as theirs [Jannes & Jambres] was." (II Tim. 3:8-9)...................
Then in another part in the same paper...

"Yes, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But EVIL MEN AND SEDUCERS [Gk: ‘imposters’] SHALL WAX [grow] WORSE AND WORSE, deceiving, and being deceived" (II Tim. 3:13).

That part is prophesied...it is not going to go away and I get much comfort from this fact that this is the plan and word of God. Endurance is the flip side of patience and it suffers and bleeds sometimes where as the dressed up counterfeit of patience is piety with a flip side of tolerance for idolatry as the currency of Babylonian heresies.

And just who is it that grows "worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived?" The men and women of the world? The pagans and heathens? Is this what Paul means? Of course not. These are the leaders of the Church.

"Preach the word; [the WHOLE Word of God]; be instant in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine [Who? The world? The pagans? The atheist? Why they have never had sound doctrine in the first place] but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (II Tim. 4:2-4).

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: Arcturus on July 25, 2007, 02:39:19 PM ---
Joe....you quoted OT. I noticed that. I do not think the patience in the NT means tolerance of evil I think it means patience under persecution, opposition and rejection. In other words, patience that bleeds out of the endurance from pain in following Christ rather than taking the pup wolf by the paw and leading it into the sheep fold and ignoring or berating the sheep for bleating while silencing the lambs as some would do!


--- End quote ---

Hi Arcturus,

I thought the verses I presented from the OT (which I believe to be just as relevant as the NT) captured the point I was trying to make. Should we be rigid in all our interactions with our brethren? Can we discern a misguided idea from a person who is honestly searching? 

What do you believe is the "fruit" Christ speaks of here?

Luk 8:15  But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

There is no doubt that heresy and blasphemy must be addressed with a two edged sword when it is continuing from the same source.

How do we deal with our children when they make a mistake due to ignorance or immaturity?

If one were to come to this Forum and spew evil doctrines I can assure you they would not be here for long, but patience with some who don't quite "get it" yet is a godly thing to do. The apostles were with Christ Himself for 3 and a half years and still did not "get it."

Rom 12:18  If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
 
Gal 6:10  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Php 4:5  Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

Last but not least we have this from Paul on how we should deal with our brothers and sisters;

1Th 5:14  Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

seminole:
Sorry to butt in a conversation of those who know more. Just wanted to ask if I am reading that those of us who are still learning and finding our way should not say anything further? If so, how do we get the wisdom to know when we have reached the level necessary to post something?

Brett:

--- Quote from: Falconn003 on July 24, 2007, 07:38:33 PM ---Brett

The Spirit is incorruptible, the body((flesh)) sins.

The Spirit, sort of enters a state liken to sleep, the body decays.

Do a little dirty work, research the ancient old text word that is translated into SOUL ,in that scripture.

And post your findings on here.............i'll be be waiting for your post on what you come up with.

wisdom and tranquil
Rodger

--- End quote ---

Hi Rodger,

Thanks for the answer. I will do my best understand in Matt 10:28. Still want more discussing, not that challenge or whatever but trying to understand if God will, you know. Maybe we need move to new topic of "Matt. 10:28"? Because maybe the moderates would locked this post for some reason. What you think? Anyway here I have email from Ray in two years ago when I first time found his site:

Hi Ray,
 
I have read and study it in your site. I learned something that person dead and is in hade (unseen, sleep). The question I have for you:
 
Soul in hade (with unseen)?
 
And the spirit gone with God but not in heaven? (this one stupid question I had  ::))
 
If spirit with God or heaven, will have seen like conscious? If yes, how can person/soul in hade unseen and his spirit seen at the same time?
 
Of course, I understand your writing about hade, sleep, unseen, wait until Jesus come again (resurrection). The reason why I ask you is because 1 Cor. 15:51 said not all fall asleep, yet, other scripture said 'sleep' and 'unseen'. This is confusing to me, it is not about you, it is about the scripture, real sleep or not sleep at all. Hope you can help me. I extremely appreciate your time and help.
 
Thanks,
Brett
 

Dear Brett:
At death, we are DEAD. Completely DEAD. We know NOTHING. It is NOT sleep, but it is LIKE sleep, in that you are NOT CONSCIOUS, and you do not dream--you are DEAD.
Your "spirit" is what gives life to YOUR BODY. The spirit doesn't think or talk or dor anything CONSCIOUS, except give LIFE to your body.  That spirit goes back to God IN HEAVEN (where ever God IS, IS heaven), but it has NO CONSCIOUSNESS. It cannot "think" without a body.
The body at death, begins to decay and return back to the soil of the ground.
The "soul" is your consciousness (your thinking, feeling, etc.). At death it just completely ceases to exist AT ALL.  That ceasing to exist at all is called "the UNSEEN"  or hades in the Greek and sheol in the Hebrew. It is not a PLACE, it is not a GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION, it is not UP or DOWN, it is just NOTHING (the UNSEEN, UNKNOWN, IMPERCEPTIBLE.
God be with you,
Ray


I have something new in my mind about Matt. 10:28 and want to comment and see if I am right or not. But let me think first before comment. I don't want another stupid question (or comment) like I did to Ray. ;D



--- Quote ---Addendum:: BRETT

What attributes do the scriptures describe of the Spirit, such as love, enlightenment, mercy, healing, caring, Faith, worchiping...ect.

What do you brett attribute to the spirit of God in accordance to the scriptures.

Can any of those attributes be seen physically, be felt physically........ect
--- End quote ---

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. Is that question? Or just comment?


--- Quote ---I would hope once you Brett can get a more solid grasp of WHAT the Spirit consist of, you can be led by the Spirit and be enlighten to How the Spirit works/actions.

--- End quote ---

Thank you, Rodger.


--- Quote ---cauliflower and tylenol
Rodger
--- End quote ---

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Brett

jER:
Should we be rigid in all our interactions with our brethren? Can we discern a misguided idea from a person who is honestly searching? 

Ephesians 3:17-19

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I Corinthians 13:1-13

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (LOVE), I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (LOVE), I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (LOVE), it profiteth me nothing. Charity (LOVE) suffereth long, and is kind; charity (LOVE) envieth not; charity(LOVE) vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity (LOVE) never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now, I know in part; but then shall I know, even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity (LOVE), these three; but the greatest of these is charity (LOVE)."   

Matthew 22:36-40

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I John 3:1

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God."


 It appears that the perpetual corrector understands the importance of truth, but often misses the requirements of love, and kindness.

- jER

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