Clean and Unclean Meat !!

[LittleBear]

Hi Sue Ann,

Oh Boy, what did I start? Ok, I'll give you another suggestion to give you better dreams.

How about Death by Chocolate, my very favorite ice cream. It would definitely be considered a clean food! I'm pretty sure it's found somewhere in Isaiah. OK, hang on, I'm looking. Um, no I can't seem to find it there. Sorry, I must have read it somewhere else. 

Anyway, sweet dreams!

Ursula

[Sue Creamer]

Ursula,

I am so sad Death by Chocolate is not there...are you sure you looked hard enough?     (Ha ha ha)
Have you ever heard of Death by Chocolate CAKE   Hum-mm, hum mm it is just as bad (good ).    In a way I would have to agree with Steve, maybe that rat roasted just right along side a big ole potato would be so much more healthy...(kidding of course).  Oh no,  here comes the nightmares.....

Thanks for your response..I loved it.
Sue Ann

[LittleBear]

Death by Chocolate CAKE?!!!

Help me someone! I'm nowhere near any chocolate and I'm starting to get lightheaded!
Ok, Ok, deep breaths....I'm alright now. I think I'm gonna make it.

Ursula

[ruckfogers]

BEFORE the Law there were clean and unclean animals...

When everything was ready, the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I can see that you alone are righteous. Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. [GEN 7:1-2 NLT]

If God thought that some animals were unfit for eating before the Law how are we free to safely eat anything we want? Isn't poison always poison?

[Kat]

Hi ruckfoger,

If God thought that some animals were unfit for eating before the Law how are we free to safely eat anything we want?

I look at the scripture that we have in the NT, that plainly state that all are clean.

Mar 7:18  He said to them, "Are you so ignorant? Don't you know that nothing that goes into a person from the outside can make him unclean?
Mar 7:19  For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and is expelled as waste." (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

This is a statement from Jesus, where He says nothing you eat and I would think that would include unclean meat, make you unclean.  The statement in parentheses is from Mark making it certain what is being said.

Luke 10:8  And into whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.

This is Jesus speaking, there is no mention of not eating a unclean meat.  But He is saying to eat whatever is put before you.

1Cor 10:27  If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

This is from Paul, he is teaching them a higher spiritual law of being conscience of anothers feeling and says to not object to eating whatever is set before you.  The spiritual comes before the physical.

I do realize that we have to use good judgment in what we eat, but we are not held to the laws of eating only clean animals, the scripture prove this.
We are held by a higher spiritual law and that is what we should be concerned with. 
In reality when we stand before Christ to give account, I don't think He will be concerned with what our dietary habits were. 
This is how I see this, but anyone that is trying to eat health and restricting certain things in their diet, this is a good thing for them to do.  Our bodies are the temple of God and we should strive to be healthy and keep all things in moderation.  We should not let this become an idol of your heart, there are more important things to be concerned with 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[SteveW]

Kat,

Good verses there.  I would also like to point to the whole chapter 8 of 1 Co.  Here too Paul makes it clear that it is more important to be mindful of others than it is to express your freedom to eat any food.

1Co 8:9  Don't cause problems for someone with a weak conscience, just because you have the right to eat anything.

I try apply the spiritual meaning of this chapter to many parts of my life, including keeping my mouth shut (most times) with Christain friends and family when they speak of things of God of which they have not a clue.  It takes discernment I do not always have to know if God is leading one, that I can share some of the new truths we have learned.  I see the whole of chapter 8 as a warning to be loving to unbelievers and Christians who are still toddlers.

Though it is clear we could eat any food without sin, but...

1Co 8:8  But food doesn't bring us any closer to God. We are no worse off if we don't eat, and we are no better off if we do.

I believe this 100%, but the keyword to me is FOOD.  It appears to me that not everything labeled food in today's world really is.  For instance, Coffeymate adds zinc oxide for color, and that is a chemical more commonly used in white paint pigment.  Additives may be edible, yes, but that does not make them FOOD.  Of course I am perhaps more sensitive to this because of a heath issue of mine. 

Like Ray and many others here, I try to drink pure water and eat healthy foods.  I am far from perfect and do indulge a little on occasion.  Sue Ann, I don;t know what "Death by Chocolate CAKE" is but my wife brought home some ice cream called "moose tracks" for the kids.  Under my wife's watchful eye, I took a chocolate chip the size of a business card out of my bowl and put it back in the carton. 

Steve

[ruckfogers]

I think that there is a difference between health laws and spiritual laws.

The fact that God told Noah that some things were clean and unclean was both a health law (things we shouldn't eat) and a spiritual law (there are things God approves of to be sacrificed).

When we are told that it doesn't matter what we eat it is speaking spiritually. We cannot make ourselves clean or unclean with what we eat or do, only Jesus' blood can cleanse us.

Think about it logically, if poison was put before you are all things pure?

Pork and lobster and crow are still bad for us (health-wise).

This "(Thus he declared all foods clean.)" is not in the KJV.

And Jesus was a Jew. When he traveled, he spoke to Jews. Paul took it to the gentiles. So everyone that Jesus talked to would already understand the laws of cleanliness so they would NEVER serve pork or anything of the like.

And think about it... if pork was healthy and good for us, would Jesus have casted daemons into them?

[insanezenmistress]

And now, let me come at you from left feild entirely...........could "meats" have a symbolic meaning?....i am sure it does, and Ray has pointed it out several times. Physical mirrors the spiritaul............ in my study i have taken many places where meats are mentioned and think of them in terms of doctrines, and philosophies, truths and spiritaul undersandings.


now in that analogy,


Before there where clean and unclean meats......(the law and the torah where the clean truths and the truths of baal where the unclean truths).............(argh i can see how i am complicating left feild but try and bear with....).................

and after the reconciliation of christ......all truths are sanctified by christ.

Paul said we can eat meats offered to idols.......because we know there are no idols. that means for instance, say  the teaching "do unto others as you would have them to unto you."

It is a meat. and it is taught in many religions and philosphies. it is truth no matter who says it.  Truth(and the understanding of what is truth) comes from christ.............and the lie and the deception of truth comes form Evil... and evil  seasons truths with lies.

BUT i am not saying that the way to christ is thru "meats offered to idols" and i am not saying we should stick around the idol's temples and suck up all their meats............like the jews did time and time again in their day.

I am saying that Christ can present truth any way he wants..meaning he has sanctified all meats.......to be received with joy.

For example say your struggleing with something and someone comes along and gives you a wisdom, say that wisdom comes form the Koran, but it hits you in the right spot.  Should you deny that truth because it was a meat offered to an idol?

ok the sun is in my eyes, NEXT pitcher......


Justine.

[Kat]

Hi ruckfogers,

Mark 7:19  because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

This scripture was a statement by Jesus, the last phrase in parentheses was added by Mark.  I found nowhere that stated this to be spurious.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[DizzyD]

                     Greetings all...
          I may be going astray with a thought about ruckfogers reference about when Jesus cast the demons out of the afflicted man and into the swine. I noticed something a while back, I don't recall if I heard it or if the thought just came to me. That is that the swine immediately ran down the hill into a lake and drowned themselves, the swine would not tolerate something in them that a human would. They would rather die. Just an observation

[Harryfeat]

Hey Sue Ann,

Here are some things that Paul said about food that I try to keep in mind:

Rom 14:9  For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Rom 14:10  Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.
Rom 14:11  For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God."
Rom 14:12  Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13  Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
Rom 14:14  I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean.
Rom 14:15  For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat.
Rom 14:16  Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil.
Rom 14:17  For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18  For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.
Rom 14:19  Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up.


Also, beware of  eating only herbs and vegetables----
Rom 14:2  One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.

It took me a while to discern the messages from all passages above, but I was totally uplifted when I got it.


Bring on that meat lovers pizza.

be blessed
feat

[gmik]

Wow.  How did I miss a thread on FOOD?   Girls Rick has a thread w/ a recipe for Death by Chocolate.  Or did I just wish that to be so?

This has been an interesting thread, serious and humorous.  I do agree w/ feat on this one.

Americans are fat bcz:  Ta daaaaaa....<drum roll please>

FAST FOOD  NO EXERCISE  FAST FOOD  NO EXERCISE  FAST FOOD NO EXERCISE
Thank you, thank you.....

[Sue Creamer]

Thank you all...!!!  I have learned much from your post...

Feat, thank you I have to admit that last verse (ROM 14:2) is a new one for me...I have probably read it many times but didn't really understand it that way until you pointed it out. 

Gena, you are funny....!      I know you are right about the fast food and exercise..a weakness of mine.

peace,
Sue Ann

[ez2u]

I have been studding nutrition and health for 30 years.  God has brought me knowledge on  how to heal myself through food and herbs

Gen 1:29  And God430 said,559 Behold,2009 I have given5414 you (853) every3605 herb6212 bearing2232 seed,2233 which834 is upon5921 the face6440 of all3605 the earth,776 and every3605 tree,6086 in the which834 is the fruit6529 of a tree6086 yielding2232 seed;2233 to you it shall be1961 for meat.402

ESE 47:12  And by5921 the river5158 upon5921 the bank8193 thereof, on this side4480, 2088 and on that side,4480, 2088 shall grow5927 all3605 trees6086 for meat,3978 whose leaf5929 shall not3808 fade,5034 neither3808 shall the fruit6529 thereof be consumed:8552 it shall bring forth new fruit1069 according to his months,2320 because3588 their waters4325 they1992 issued out3318 of4480 the sanctuary:4720 and the fruit6529 thereof shall be1961 for meat,3978 and the leaf5929 thereof for medicine.8644

I have been gravely ill at times and with this knowledge healing came.  I had fibromyalgia, depression. chronic fatigue. cancer of the breast. hypoglycemia, ect....

How we eat does speak of our appetite.  When I had cancer the Lord spoke to me that it was my appetite that would struggle with.  There is too much evidence out now to dispute that a healthy diet of as much organic raw fruits and vegetables you can eat is the the healthiest way to eat.  Cooked oils is hard on the body overloads the liver  to where it begins to break down and causes heart attacks.  Linus Pauling won 2 Nobel peace prizes for his work in vitamin C  but what most people don't know is niacin and vitamin C  taken in the early stages of schizophrenia  high levels  after about 2 years  about 90% of the patients Will be fully functionable citizens with no medicine  nor niacin and vitamin C.  Read for your self.  What is holding us up in this country is sickness is BIG BUSINESS  SO THERE IS A LOT OF IMFORMATION OUT THERE to support eating poorly.  If you don't believe me, that I tell you right,  talk to me I will explain to you what happen to me to get healthier and recommend some good books to read.  People don't be fooled eating closer to the way God made food and rawer is healthier for your body.  I know this I have experience it  first hand.  Peggy

[ruckfogers]

Mark 7:19  because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

The "(Thus He declared all foods clean)" part is not in the King James.

Take a look at this (5 minute read)...

No preaching (including preaching via links).
Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching.  Links are allowed if a site it just for fun or informational, ie, you tube, google translator, Esword, etc.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html

The posting of teaching links is not allowed, we do not want to give any indication that the things contained on some of these sites have the endorsement of Bible Truths, I hope you understand.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Mark 7:19  because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

The "(Thus He declared all foods clean)" part is not in the King James.

Take a look at this (5 minute read)...

Actually this thread has already presented about every view possible so let's take Paul's advice and not let what we eat or don't eat become stumbling blocks.

I have had members of my family that did everything possible to gain and or preserve good health and died in their early to late 50's, on the other hand my Grandfather smoked like a chimney, drank morning til night ate fried foods constantly and lived to be 86, my Grandmother (other side of the family) was overweight, ate a lot of pork and other meats as well as more than her fair share of breads, pastries, cakes, etc. she lived to be 97.

Temperence in all things is a requirement and one of the fruits of anyone who has the Spirit of Christ within, we should seek the things above if we do the earthly things will take care of themselves (through Him of course).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[rk12201960]

Well said Joe.
I good bit of wisdom to chew on.

Randy

[ez2u]

Here is something I did not find in reading these post
All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful to me, but I will not be ruled by any.
1Co 6:13  Foods for the belly, and the belly for foods, but God will destroy both this and these.
Reading the verses before and after gives a person more light as to what is being said.I have experience better health by eating closer to natural and organic.  I don't believe we are under law that we must requirer someone to eat a certain way and surely when I ate all raw it took a little planning.  I slept much better and never had any illness.  People don't realize how important sleeping is.  A good sound sleep helps your body to clean house and restore your health.  Not putting so much work on the liver my eating raw food with life in it gives your body a chance to rest and repair, rebuild.  I hear this calling to eat healthier my appetities of my flesh what I have known and done in the past has stop me.  It is not  a requirement for any one but I found it produces better health after a while.  That is after your body heals.
Greed on the other hand is a very deturbing element to me why I don't know it been around forever and in the damn nature.  It is not a respecter of persons.  I to repent on things.

[YellowRose]

This is a topic that hits close to home for me right now.  I have read all of the posts and I have learned some important spiritual insights.  I am always grateful for that.  The Lord has been dealing with me on this very issue lately.  My understanding was stuck between the world's carnal views concerning food and the spiritual teachings concerning food.  I was finally able to sort through it all with the help of this important scripture:  I call upon you, therefore, brethren, through the compassions of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice -- living, sanctified, acceptable to God -- your intelligent service; and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God -- the good, and acceptable, and perfect.  Romans 12:1-2.  I finally understood that the main issue is not which foods are right or how much food is right.  These are carnal ideas/arguments.  Every time I turn around, I'm being bombarded by diets and studies and discussions about food, food, food.  It's all about tending to the flesh, focusing on the flesh, caring for the flesh.  It is true that we are to care for our bodies and responsibly manage them, but the goal is not so that the flesh will profit.  The flesh profits nothing.  The goal is not so that we meet the letter of some old testament law.  Through Christ we have been set free from the law of sin and death.  The goal is to present our bodies as a living, sanctified and acceptable sacrifice to God.  It is for His sake that we consider these issues, not for the sake of our or others' flesh.  If there is a question as to clean vs. unclean food, or acceptable vs. unacceptable food, the answer can only be that which presents our bodies as a living, sanctified and acceptable sacrifice to God.  And these posts are filled with scriptures that provide insights as to how to accomplish that.  Romans 12 goes on to point out that we are each given our own measure of faith and we are each given our own kind of gifts and none of us are to think of ourselves too wisely because of any of it.  There is no one way but we all have special lessons God has taught each of us concerning food that we can share with each other and we can personally accept or reject any teaching, based on how God is leading us to present our bodies as a living, sanctified and acceptable sacrifice to God and not based on the validity of a particular teaching.  Remember: For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5. 

I am humbled by the privilege of being able to share this with all of you.

In His Service,

Cathy

[DuluthGA]

And I am very personally GLAD and heartened to read it!  HA! 

Here you are, so new yet so insightful Cathy, ho ho!!  [Just new to us, not that you are new to His indwelling spirit. ]  What a great post!  YA NAILED IT!    To me anyway, I agree, and good also for all the accumulation of posts and other insights as well.  My two favorite lines from you:

It is true that we are to care for our bodies and responsibly manage them, but the goal is not so that the flesh will profit.... It is for His sake that we consider these issues, not for the sake of our or others' flesh.

HIGH FIVE, I love simplicity! 
I praise Him for there are NO LIMITS TO HIS GRACE!
Janice