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Eve deceived?

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Kat:

Hi sonofone,


--- Quote ---Before the fall of Adam and Eve did there exist a husband wife relationship?
--- End quote ---

Gen 2:25  And they were both naked, the man and his wife; and they were not ashamed.

This scripture indicates that Eve was indeed considered Adam's wife, therefore the scripture states they were married.  And though there was not an actual fall, from where did they fall?  But as it says, "they were naked.... and not ashamed," it was before they ate the fruit and was thrown out of the garden.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Gregor:
Greetings,

In Gen. 3:16 God definately establishes the marriage heirarchy, saying to the woman, "your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." This is after they both partook. So prior to this, Adam and Eve must have had equal liberty within the garden. Perhaps Adam took his command over the garden to the next level - not of his own will, but according to the sovereign plan of God.
Rom 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope
 
As for the reference to Gen. 2:15:

Hebrew word for dress: Strongs 5647 a-bad: prim. root - to serve, till, enslave - be, keep in bondage, bondman, bond-service, husbandman, labor, bring to pass, serve or servant, worshipper.
It is a very unique word, only used sparringly, mostly in reference to worshippers of Baal and different than the word used describing God's work (never servile) in the garden. Baal, Strongs 1168 same as 1167 from 1166: Having dominion over, a master, married, husband. 

Hebrew word for keep: Strongs 8104 shamar: prim. root - to hedge about (as with thorns) ie. guard, protect, attend to, - beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man)

See a pattern? I think Adam lusted after his wife, made an idol of her in his heart, because he could look upon her, touch and feel her, unlike God who is spirit, not flesh. Adam must have felt like a god, ruling the garden, having dominion over the animals. Pride of Life??

I don't know if the carnal mind is able to really know love, for God is Love. Love does not seek its own pleasure. Everything we do in our carnal mind is in response to the pay-off we get. We may think we "love" someone, romanticize it, whatever, but ultimately when it comes down to "love" between a man and a woman the bottem line is rooted in the flesh. Jesus says, Matt.19:11,12 "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it." King David said, 2 Sam. 1:26 "I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; You have been very pleasant to me; your love to me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women." 1 Sam.18:1 shows their love was the same as the commandment Jesus gives to love your neighbor as yourself. First you must learn to love yourself, and that can only come from God, otherwise it is vanity. It is the marriage which makes the bed holy. Both physically and spiritually. Eph. 5:32 tells us this is a great mystery, so I will continue to look into it. I've got to go cause my wife's a callin'. We'll talk again soon. All the best,
G.

sonofone:
Equal liberty. I was thinking this was true as well. If there is no male or female in Christ I believe this must have been the way it started off with respect to Adam & Eve. As the scriptures state after the fall her desire was to be to her husband.Wouldn't tis change the way we view there relationship prior to the fall. Adam would not have been responsible for her.She would have been just as responsible for herself. The biggest issue I have with this is Eve is totally divorced from this great fall as it concerns mankind. Adam is the one responsible for sinful mans condition. The bible says that he was not deceived? So why wasn't Eves choice the cause for our sinful condition?

Akira329:
Hey Everybody!
One of my first post in discussion!!!

It would seem to me that Adam did not love his wife the way christ loved the church.
Scripture speaks abundance about the condition of men and his carnel mind, is Adam not included in this number.
I thought Adam failed and Christ succeeded? If he did love, then which type: agape or phileo?
my brain is mush right now, help my understanding Lord

I look forward to everyones response, I need to be more involved in conversation around here!

Antaiwan

hillsbororiver:
Hello Antaiwan (and everyone),

Great to see you posting here, it was a real pleasure meeting you at the Nashville Conference, are you coming to Mobile? I know I am looking forward to it.

This Adam and Eve topic is extremely interesting and I believe another example of the depth and multiple lessons/types/shadows and layers contained within so much of Scripture. Adam and Eve, natural carnal man's love/lust for a woman, many of us men I am sure have made reckless "damn the torpedos" decisions in regard to a woman we desired, was that inspired by a true and pure love? Or was it something else?

I can also see this as representing the called (but not chosen) and their love for their church/denomination and the comfort it provides them, the covering (being "saved") they imagine it provides. Within it there is a feeling they have what they really need and are in need of nothing more. Adam and Eve had to come to a point where their nakedness was revealed to them as those in the Judgement will;

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable and poor and blind, and naked:

Didn't Adam lose his first love (God) to remain with the woman and the physical satisfaction she provided, did he not lose sight of the Creator instead focusing on the creation?

We see also the Lord providing skins to cover their nakedness, the first sacrifice that typified the ultimate covering/sacrifice for the sins of mankind, Jesus on the cross?

Gen 3:21  Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

We can also look at this as Adam not trusting God to save Eve and reconcile her to Him, so in a carnal display of love (without faith) he (Adam) demonstrated that he believed that his love for Eve was in fact superior to God's love for them both. Don't many of us have this within us as well? Or at least used to? Has there been times when looking at the state of this world that we think somehow we ourselves could have done it better, without all the pain, suffering and tribulation?
 
Job 4:17  Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

It is true though that man can and does good things for his own even in a carnal state, this physical existence does at times still provide opportunities for selflessness and generousity that we fulfil, but it is limited in scope only to be shared with very few, those we are especially fond of. We often do not excell in the command to love all men as we love ourselves, but often are quite good at loving our family, friends and those who we perceive to be in agreement with us or are agreeable to us.

Mat 7:11  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

There are so many possible lessons here in this tiny portion of Genesis, it makes me even more in awe of our God. Many times through the years I have read and reread some very well written books that always seemed to bring out more and more detail through every read. The Word of God blows them all out of the water, it is not even close, as His Spirit opens our hearts and eyes we could spend a very long lifetime studying the Scriptures and still only barely scratch the surface of the Wisdom contained within it's pages.

I am not promoting or attempting to teach any of these postulations, my purpose in writing this was to demonstrate how my mind works when reading His Word and all the layers and textures of examples/types/shadows/truths that are in this miracle we call the Scriptures!
 

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe




 

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