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Only the elect are raised spiritual
Kat:
Hi Gregor,
Here are a few email that address the things you referred to.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3213.0.html -------
Jesus Christ was the Firstfruits of those Who Slept. He became a physical man. He died, and just like all who die, Jesus awaited resurrection. His came sooner than ours. In the resurrection of God's Elect, they are raised with a "spiritual body" (I Cor. 15:43-44). Therefore Jesus was resurrected with a "spiritual body." He manifested Himself in His physical body so that Thomas would know for sure it was Jesus. He also manifested Himself as the Gardner to Mary. He manifested Himself as yet a different person to the two men walking to Emmaus. And he manifested Himself as yet another person when He met His disciples on the shore. Jesus will not go through eternity living in a corruptible physical body full of holes. What, pray tell, does it matter WHERE His physical body "went?" Will it maybe be displayed in a heavenly museum in a jar of formaldehyde? I don't mean to make light of your question, but I can't help it--it's the way I am when it comes to thing s like this. And my last reader asked me to "go easy" on those who have been lead astray. What can I say: failed again! But I do hope that what I have said is helpful.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,840.0.html ----------------------------
Dear William:
A friend asked me about this just a couple of weeks ago. The Father resides in "the heavens." The heavens are a realm, not a geographical location.
Jesus did not say "touch me not," as we have proof to the contrary in this very same incident recorded in Matt. 28:9-10:
"And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And the came and HELD HIM BY THE FEET [clearly they WERE 'touching' Him], and worshipped Him."
The first definition of the Greek word 'haptomia' is "to ATTACH oneself." As we clearly see in their "Holding Him by the feet." Rotherham translates this: "...be not DETAINING me..." James Moffatt translates it: "Cease CLINING to Me." The American Standard Version has: "Stop HOLDING ON to Me..."
Apparently, Jesus was resurrected just moments before the women arrived at the tomb. When they finally recognized Him as Lord, they GRABBED HIM and wouldn't let Him go--worshipping (as He was clearly resurrected from the dead, hence, truly, the Son of God).
The thing that Jesus told His disciples a couple of days earlier was that He must RETURN to His Father. And the reason was two-fold: [1] To receive BACK the glory which He had with His Father from the beginning, and [2] He told them that unless He "went away (to the father) the Comforter would not come to them.
Jesus appeared three time to His disciples within the first 12 hours: [1] To the women at the tomb, {2] To the two men traveling on the road to Emaus, and [3] Sunday evening when the disciples (save Thomas) where gathered together behind closed doors. At that very time, Jesus gave his Apostles (not His all of His disciples, but His APOSTLES) the Holy Spirit:
"Then the same day at evening being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut...He said unto them Peace be unto you: as My Father has sent Me, even so send I you. And when He had said this, He breathed OLN THEM, AND SAID UNTO THEM, receive ye the holy spirit..but Thomas was not with them" (John 20:19-24).
Talk to you later, Lary,
Ray
M_Oliver:
I have never been able to spiritualize Ezekiel 37...Maybe now I know why.
Mark
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Gregor on September 26, 2007, 06:43:46 PM ---Greetings Alex,
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 26, 2007, 03:28:06 PM ---So those raised in the likeness of Christ's ressurection are those that are with Him. How was Christ raised? A spiritual body. How do we know? well we know that He appeared in many different forms which would only be possible had He been a spiritual being ABLE TO take any form He pleases, even the one of His body that had been crucified.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure I can agree with you here, but I am open to correction. Here's why:
John 20:17 NKJV, "Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
Jesus did many miracles here in the flesh. He "passed" through the masses at the temple when they wanted to either stone him or throw him off a cliff. He walked on water. He broke bread and fish and fed the multitudes. To assume he couldn't walk through a wall may be wrong. I've heard it said that the reason many didn't recognize him after his resurrection was precicely because he was still in his fleshly form (which would look very different after having been beaten, beard ripped out and thorns cramed on his head, etc.) I don't know for sure. But, when I read that Mary wanted to cling to him, (after recognizing his voice) and he told her not to, I ask why? Perhaps because it is a lesson to us not to cling to this world, this flesh, but that we need to realize God is spirit (to which Jesus would later ascend in Acts 1:9), as we will become. I don't know if we'll have a physical tangible body, as the flesh profits nothing. But I do know that we can "feel" pain in a limb that doesn't exist (medical phenomenom called "phantom pain") and that there are lots of things our natural mind has yet to comprehend. As for the dead standing, well they could have been lying and in that verse they are made to stand. Like I said, I don't know foresure, but am just throwing out some questions to further contemplate. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to promote some deeper thought. Hopefully I'm edifying and not tearing down?? I look forward to the replies.
Love in Christ,
G.
--- End quote ---
I just typed up this long responce gregor, and then realized that someone else had just gone and quoted what ray said. That works perfectly fine. I used pretty much the same scriptures ray used to show that Christ took on many different forms and not just that He was physicaly resurrected but not recognized because His body was badly mared and decayed.
God be with you,
Alex
javajoe:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on September 26, 2007, 04:24:52 PM ---You bring up an interesting topic Alex.
I have given thought to this from time to time and have yet to come up with a definitive answer, but I believe that perhaps a clue (type/shadow?) to this may be in the resurrection of those (such as Lazarus) who were raised from the dead during Christ's earthly ministry and also those raised by the apostles.
We know they were not raised in spiritual bodies and we know they were not raised immortal or perfect, they were just not dead anymore. We can safely assume they continued to sin, have trials, problems, tears, even judgment.
There is so much depth to the Scriptures and usually we can find multiple lessons in the verses contained within it. So maybe there is more to be gleened from these resurrections than an awesome display of the power of God grabbing the attention of those who witnessed them.
--- End quote ---
Man, all this is fantastic stuff - really deep! I have never wanted to study scripture so much in my life. Which is why I need to kick back a little and not spend so much time on the forum for now, read scripture, spend more time with God, and study more of Ray's teachings. Frankly, I've been really frustrated lately, seems my initial excitement has turned into confusion, so I hope you all don't mind if I step aside a little, and get things clarified with my Lord.
You will hear from me. Keep me in your prayers!!
ciao!
hillsbororiver:
Hi javajoe,
We all need to do this from time to time.
I will be here posting and reading at a frenetic pace then just come skidding to a stop feeling the need to contemplate and meditate on the Lord, study His Word and the reread the articles on Bible Truths.
It is true, there is a time and a season.....
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
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