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Only the elect are raised spiritual
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: M_Oliver on September 26, 2007, 07:12:14 PM ---I have never been able to spiritualize Ezekiel 37...Maybe now I know why.
Mark
--- End quote ---
Ezekiel 37 is certainly very interesting, there is just to much going on in there that i do not understand unfortunately. I'm sure this is one of passages that ray will touch upon when speaking about the ressurection. Atleast i think, because this does seem to be talking about ressurection of physical bodies.
Well anyway, thanks for that reference.
God bless,
Alex
indianabob:
Folks,
Lots to consider in the messages presented, especially the quotes from Ray.
I would like to try to sort out what seems evident to me and hope you will bear with me.
First comes the flesh and then the spiritual.
Messiah came in the flesh and lived perfectly and was raised immortal spirit. He was/is the first.
Since then Jesus is working with all those God has given him to perfect them and prepare them to serve in some capacity as pioneers of the coming righteous Kingdom of God on earth. These are those called, chosen and elect and not yet perfected, who will be perfected by a miracle at their resurrection to life in spiritual bodies.
In one way of thinking about it we too will die, for an instant, and be re-born as spiritual individuals.
All the rest of humanity, from Adam and Eve till the present and who knows how much longer, will be raised in the Great White Throne judgment of the 'dry bones' of Ezek 37.
This later resurrection is not due to those folks being worse sinners than are we who have been or may be the 'called, chosen and elect'. Their fate, to have been left behind and to be destined for the spiritual lake of correcting fire, is God's preordained plan for the great majority of mankind. It is no insult or slight by God for them to have been left behind. It is just the way the plan works. Some had to be pioneers and go ahead in order for the great mass of people to have a 'different way' prepared for them. Jesus, God's only begotten son had to be the unique, sinless first born, because that was the way God planned it. We who are not the first born and those who are not the first fruits after Jesus should not feel badly that God arranged a different salvation for them. I think that it had to be that way to account for all the children who died before they could have understood and been called out.
Another way to think about this plan of God's, if I have any correct thoughts at all, is that God through Jesus is working out a plan in time that allows mankind, ever since Adam, to go his own way and decide for himself what is good and what is evil. This plan allows mankind to learn from their own mistakes, guided always by God's over arching wise control, THAT they need God and CANNOT do it their way and be successful. Just consider history.
If that makes sense, then I believe that the next step in sequence is that Jesus will return, take his throne in Jerusalem, put down all forceful resistance, set up his righteous government with the elect as administrators/teachers and for some period of time allow human life to continue under his loving leadership to show them/us how wonderful life can be when righteous government is in place.
An illustration one may consider is God's week of six days (6 thousand years) for man to do his own will and then the sabbath day (1000 years) ? of rest when God's government of love is in place.
At some point in the future, I don't know when, the great white throne resurrection will take place. All those in that resurrection will be raised mortal, flesh and blood, just as they were when they died (it is appointed to all men once to die) EXCEPT they will be raised with whole bodies, completely healed of every injury or disease and continue their lives as fleshly human beings and face the judgment of loving correction.
Then when Jesus has finished his work with these folks, they will be changed, in an instant, to become like their savior and like each of us and they will see him as he is.
When this is accomplished and death is abolished, Jesus will turn the Kingdom back over to his Father and our Father and we will be one BIG HAPPY FAMILY.
Joe and Kat, please advise or comment. Thanks, Bob
rocky:
--- Quote from: indianabob on September 27, 2007, 12:08:48 AM ---Folks,
Then when Jesus has finished his work with these folks, they will be changed, in an instant, to become like their savior and like each of us and they will see him as he is.
When this is accomplished and death is abolished, Jesus will turn the Kingdom back over to his Father and our Father and we will be one BIG HAPPY FAMILY.
Joe and Kat, please advise or comment. Thanks, Bob
--- End quote ---
The problem I personally see with this theory, is that the "changed in an instant" you don't call a resurrection (as this would imply a third resurrection), but call it a "change", even though a person in a mortal body has now become an immortal spiritual body, and death has been destroyed.
So, what about those in the first resurrection who are alive at his coming who are changed in an instant, are they not resurrected?? but just instantly "changed"??
Craig:
Folks, I know this topic is interesting and we would all like these answers, but the truth is we are spinning our wheels here.
Both lines of thought on this lead to more questions than answers. If the masses are raised in a physical body, do they all get raised at the same time? If so there will be a bunch of people roaming the earth. Are they raised the same age they died? If not will there be billions of (God forbid) 16 year olds roaming the earth. Can/will they have children? Can/will they die? etc. etc. etc.
As Joe says, even after much thought, no definitive answer is reached. Face it, the scriptures are relatively quiet on this subject. Ray, gives an opinion on this but he has said that the scripture is silent about this, so it is mostly conjecture and speculation on anyones part.
There is much more important matters to worry about now. Let's worry more about seeking the kingdom of God and less on what the kingdom of God is/will be like. Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need. The scriptures are not quiet on this topic and Ray uses many, many, many scriptures to help us understand what we should be doing. So strive to become more like Christ and defeat the beast within us and then the kingdom will only be a breath away.
When I was still in the church I spent countless hours studying end time prophecy and reading everyone who had an opinion about it. I wish I would have spent more time learning what the bible really had to say about seeking the kingdom..
I know whether I am in the elect, the called or the masses of humanity, God has me where I need to be and in this life the only thing I can see we are called to do is to seek the kingdom of God, and don't worry about who gets to clean the toilets until we get there. ;)
Blessings!
Craig
Harryfeat:
Hello Craig,
That is certainly good advice. Otherwise we end up thinking about nonsensical things like how the first resurrection is really the rapture everybody is talking about. Or how is the earth surface going to be rearranged to handle countless billions of people. Or will the blind still be so as when they died. Or will cancer be cured. Or will...... ;)
...and yet it is still such an intriguing topic. Wow massive reincarnation into the same bodies. I have to get busy reading and reflecting.
be blessed everyone
feat
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