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Jesus Nature?
Robin:
There was no fall of man. Adam and Eve were created just as they were.
Now, with all that said, let’s prove once and for all that Mother Eve and Adam were (1) NOT spiritually perfect in any way shape or form, BEFORE they actually ate of the forbidden fruit, and (2) neither did they sin and then partake of the forbidden fruit through the operation of something called "free will."
"And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD… Gen. 3:6:
"…lust of the FLESH…" (I John 2:15)
and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES… Gen. 3:6:
"…lust of the EYES…" (I John 2:15)
and a tree to be DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE Gen. 3:6:
"…the PRIDE OF LIFE" (I John 2;15)
Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… BEFORE she actually ate of the forbidden fruit.
ALL of Eve’s evil thoughts of pride, vanity, lust, greed, disobedience, and finally thievery proceeded NOT from Eve’s supposed "free will," but rather from out of her HEART. And the only reason these sins could come out of her heart is because THEY WERE ALREADY IN THERE FROM THE BEGINNING. BEFORE Eve actually ate of the forbidden fruit, she committed every category of sin in the world. And need I remind us that we were also, ALL IN ADAM, before he ate of the tree (I Cor. 15:22). Will we deny our own eyes and the Scriptures we have just read?
"For the creature [Gk: ‘creation’] was made [put under, subordinate to, to obey] subject to vanity [Gk: ‘futility’], not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope."
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
John tells us that:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… and the Word was MADE FLESH… grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:1, 14 & 17).
God is not "flesh." Jesus had to be "made flesh." And then AS flesh, Jesus had to "grow and wax strong" (Luke 2:40). God does not "grow or wax strong," but Jesus "made flesh" had to grow and wax strong. Jesus also had to "overcome" (John 16:33). God does not need to overcome anything. Jesus had to "suffer" and "learn obedience" (Heb. 5: 8 ). God does not suffer: God does not learn anything, seeing that God is all knowing (Isa. 46:10).
Jesus was "troubled in His soul" (John 12:27). God is never troubled in HIS soul. Jesus got "weary" (John 4 6). God never gets weary (Isa. 40:28). Jesus became "exceeding sorrowful" (Matt. 26:38). God never sorrows. Jesus was famished after fasting for 40 days and nights. He was so "hungry" that he was ready to die (Matt. 4:2). God never gets hungry. God can never die of hunger. Jesus got very "thirsty" (John 19:28). God never gets thirsty. Jesus "wept" (John 11:35). God never weeps. Jesus was acquainted with "sickness" (Isa. 53:3). God never gets sick.
How sad that many Christians believe that nothing bad ever happened to Jesus before His crucifixion. If it were not for God IN Jesus, Jesus would have been as helpless as a newborn baby. In fact, Jesus said with all humility and truth: "I can of Mine Own Self do nothing…" (John 5:30).
Jesus Christ is our Example of just how man (mankind) is to "be made into the Image of God." Jesus is our example, our way, and our destiny:
"For whom He did foreknow, [that’s US, and eventually all humanity, I Cor. 15:28], He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29).
Jesus was made a physical man so that He could show us the way to the spirit God.
And so it was that this Jesus, in the flesh, who became human, became a man of flesh, was conformed into the spiritual "Image of God," and spoke to us through His "words of spirit." It is Jesus Who "was the word of God" back in Genesis, Who did the speaking when "…God [the Word] said, Let there be light" (Gen. 1:3). It was "the word" in Genesis 1:26 Who said: "Make will We humanity in Our Image…" (Concordant Version).
What kind of words were those words, which The Word spoke back there in the garden? Why they were the words of Jesus, and Jesus plainly tells us that His words "ARE SPIRIT" (John 6:63).
"And creating is God humanity in His [spiritual] Image. In the Image of God He creates it. Male and female He [spiritually] creates them" Gen. 1:27).
Why of course, that is why Paul teaches us that we are, "…to be conformed to the Image of His Son." Jesus now is in the very spiritual image of God, just as He was prior to being emptied into human flesh, in the form of a servant:
"And now, O Father, GLORIFY You Me with Thine Own Self with the glory which I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS" (John 17:5).
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
Hebrews 4:14-16
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Kat:
Hi sonofone,
I thought I would bring this part of the 2007 Nashville Conference (audio 7B) 'WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html -------
But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die? Why? Why did the Father sacrifice His Son? Why did He have to do that? HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT! He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD! Why did He?
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure. That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them. How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value? What can I do? I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life. I have all that to give, but they will say, you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have. What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you? And God said, I will DIE!
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness. If you have immortality you can’t die.
So He made a Son. He made Him great. And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son. Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
Then they will know We love them.
Then they will know.
------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
ciy:
One thing I believe is something to remember is that Jesus was sent to be the first fruit of many. We are to be just like Jesus. We are to have the revelation of Jesus Christ in us. Everything that happened to Jesus will happen to us in kind. It is a narrow path that leads to salvation and to get there we must drink from the same cup that Jesus drank from.
We will be tempted by Satan and we must defeat him with the Word and not through our carnal power. If we overcome him with our self, we will become more carnal and be just like the pharisees.
We are basically the same except the beast is on the throne of our hearts and not the anointing of the spirit that was on the throne of Jesus' heart (which is a big difference). Our flesh body is the same as the flesh body of Jesus and the Christ (the anointing) is in us just like in Jesus, but we are still ruled by iniquity and he never was. Like John the baptist we (our carnal being) must decrease and Christ (the spirit) must increase. The only way to do this is to fill up with Him and He is the Word, so we stay in the Word until we believe so in what he commands that we actually do what He commands from our heart. We will count it all joy because what is happening to us is exactly what we desire in our hearts because we want exactly what God wants. When this happens we have overcome this world (age or era) and we will be ready for the next age. If we do it through our self then we become more a part of this age instead of overcoming and being purged of self (flesh) by the washing of the Word.
This is the intent of my heart to stay focused on the prize set before me. That prize is the high calling of Jesus Christ. I will not worry with the mark I missed yesterday. I will press on not looking to the right or the left knowing that it is a daily fight and in the end it will be lonely, but the reward will be tremendous to those who perservere to the end.
May sound crazy but that is what I believe.
CIY
Harryfeat:
Hello M.G.,
Thanks for the link. Tradition has taught us about the "fall of Adam". I should have charaterized it pre sin rather than pre fall. Just another example that I should choose my words more carefully since, I don't believe there was a "fall" either. It was more of a slide down the slope of sin. [I'm going back to edit in pre sin ] Thanks again MG
I am still looking at the image and likeness issue. I believe after reading Paul, it is a process rather than a beginning condition as stated by Genesis1. I am currently researching into the Jewish teachings to determine what the thinking was behind the words in Genesis1.
Thanks also for that reference Kat. There is no certainly question from scripture about the Devine nature of Jesus. Joh 5:26 For, just as, the Father, hath life, in himself, in like manner, unto the Son also, hath he given, life, to have, in himself;
be blessed
feat
sonofone:
It sounds like the overall consensus is that Jesus did not possess the sin nature we have,I understand also by some comments that we may have to part in our agreement as to wether Adam started off with this sin nature or not. I find that this issue is a matter of what you believe based on your understanding of the scriptures.The feedback means a lot to me. I feel it is important to know what nature Jesus had,not because of advantage,or disadvantage.He was after all God in the flesh.
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