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Author Topic: God's Blueprint  (Read 3551 times)

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hillsbororiver

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God's Blueprint
« on: October 07, 2007, 11:01:23 AM »

There have been many things going on with me recently, I posted about the anxiety involved in this company downsizing and the effect it has had on some folks I care very much about. There have also been some personal trials involving family that I am sure are beneficial lessons for all involved but I just don't see them yet, I am sure the Lord will reveal them in His good time.

Yesterday I had some quiet time to sit in the backyard watching the river flow by and the birds go about their business as well as catch up on a little reading. I was struck by a statement in an article about a severely handicapped man who raised his son as a single parent, it was an incredible story about overcoming and not wallowing in self pity, it underlined to me the plan and purpose for our experience here on earth and how God is using our brief time here to prepare us for the unimaginably wonderful life that is our ultimate inheritence.

Here is the quote;

"Let him grow intimate with weakness so the strength he gains won't be hollow."

It made me think about how so often it is said (or felt) that God could have created us perfect Sons and Daughters from the very beginning without the pain and suffering this earthy experience can and does provide.

God saw fit that His children will really know and appreciate the goodness and love that is Him by seeing firsthand how disobediance and serving oneself leads to misery and unfulfilment, once He is finished creating us in His image we will not be shallow even spoiled children only knowing good experiences but we will thoroughly know without a doubt how truly perfect His plan really is/was/will be once we contrast it with the selfishness which is sin.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
   
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 11:39:19 AM »


Hi Joe,

This life can really throw us some hard stuff.  I hope things are beginning to be worked out in your situation.  Your post reminded me of a part of the Nashville conference, I thought I would post that part here.

posts 5-6 (audio 08) 'IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF JESUS.'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html ---------

So this is the best that God can do , but itís not pretty and itís not fancy and itís not always happy.  Itís painful  and sad and much of our lives are misery, you know, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside.  Itís not always happy happy happy, but itís necessary.  Is it right, that God should put us through something like that?
We have no say about it, we didnít ask to be born and we didnít ask to get lung cancer or whatever.  We didnít ask for this, God puts us through it.  Is it fair for Him to do that?  Why is it fair?  Well there is something good in store.  But is it necessary that we would have to go through all of this bad first?  Itís true, you have to have the contrast.

He sent Jesus Christ to go through the same stuff we go through and thatís why I wanted to bring these out today.  Because most of you never knew that.  Jesus Christ lived a pretty painful life.  Paul lived a pretty painful life, he said I learned to be content in all things.  God put His Son through what we have to go through, because He loves us!  He didnít have to.

God wants creatures, He wants children, He wants sons and daughters.  He has a desire to have something like Himself.  But for us to be like Him, we have to go through some pretty tough stuff.  So He sent His Son as an example, as how you can go through it and never get angry or upset with God.  And to never turn against your fellowman, because of what you have to go through.  He lived a perfect life, of the perfect man, sick and diseased, in pain and He lived it perfectly.  But God was living in Him, the Father was going through it just as much as He was, you see. 

Christ had to die, it said He had to die for our sins.  Thatís true, thatís the scripture, Christ died for our sin.  But then we have a scripture here that doesnít mention sin.

John 3:16  "For God so(thus) loved the world,Ē

Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think itís saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying.  What this is saying is God loved us, in this way.  This is the manner and way in which He loved us.  In this way He loved the world.

ďÖthat He gave His only begotten Son,Ē

Ok, He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.

 ďÖthat whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.Ē

Of course the Bible is written so man donít understand it.  Thatís why some of these things are put in there, ďthat who-so-ever believes.Ē  God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe.  So the Ďwho-so-everí is going to be everybody, ok. 

But He gave His Son, now hereís the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die?  Why?  Why did the Father sacrifice His Son?  Why did He have to do that?  HE DIDNíT HAVE TO DO THAT!  He didnít have to do anything, HEíS GOD!  Why did He? 
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure.  That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US!  He did not have to die.  He said, I will do it to show them.  How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value?  What can I do?  I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life.  I have all that to give, but they will say,  you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have.  What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you?  And God said, I will DIE! 
But God canít die, Heís eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness.  If you have immortality you canít die. 
So He made a Son.  He made Him great.  And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son.  Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die. 
Then they will know We love them. 
Then they will know.
-----------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 11:51:37 AM »

I think our Lord sent you that message to encourage you Joe. Just think how that artical began in His eyes. He knows the beginning from the end and knew you would read it at the time you read it and be caused to see that quotation He knew you would post here in the Forum for us!

You are not alone in your suffering.

What strikes me about my sufferings is that others appear to have far worse trials and agonies that they endure compared to mine sometimes. I liken soul pain with gout. It is unrelenting and does not go away. Yet my cross is light and easy to bare by comparison yet it feels like I am yelling the loudest in my soul against the goads. It brings home the fact that I shouldn't be so feeble and that the error is that I do not recognise my blessings enough, I give up too easily, I desire death too readily (not in a suicidal way but in a rest in peace sence  :) ) and that my trust of God and His perfect way is something to be corrected and repented.  I feel like a real wimp and know I should not have my sense of peace so anchored to my circumstances.

Knowing that we are blessed Ė regardless of what the circumstances may beÖÖour circumstances are not the blessing but our condition in the circumstances is. If we yield that is good. If we fear not, that is good. If we give up...is that good?

The other day I gave up and the very next day a huge cloud appeared over our house in the shape of a hand. This cloud formation was very clear and took up the entire sky above where I live. Is the external manifestation of God's hand over all of our lives necessary to help me to not give up....is the line in an article necessary to lift your heart again...is the ability to enjoy a perfect creation necessary to our strength to carry on....is pain necessary to strengthening us....is loss, grief and agony necessary to God's way to make us into the image of His Son...Yes....and we do have this comfort that we are not alone

Hebrews 2 : 14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of deathóthat is, the deviló 15. and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16. For surely it is not angels He helps, but Abraham's descendants. 17. For this reason He had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that He might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18. Because He himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.

As Kat posts this reminder, I can see again the too easily forgotten truth that our trials are really a share in His trials that He has overcome.  Through our griefs we are drawn to that future intimacy with Him when He comes again because what will the person who has only known comfort, ease and absence of trials have to talk about with Him who has died a horrible unjustified humilitation and death on Calvary?

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

That river in your back yard sounds heavenly! He has given me a rose garden and oh so much more!
 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 12:04:08 PM by Arcturus »
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ciy

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Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 12:17:37 PM »

Arcturus,

You said:

I should not have my sense of peace so anchored to my circumstances.

Knowing that we are blessed Ė regardless of what the circumstances may beÖÖour circumstances are not the blessing but our condition in the circumstances is. If we yield that is good. If we fear not, that is good. If we give up...is that good?


This is great stuff and so true.  Our joy is in the Lord.  The circumstances are of the world and we are to give up this world.  If we let circumstances rule our lives then our circumstances are our God or idol.  If we really know God, then we will rejoice and count it all joy knowing that our time here is short and will be looked upon some day as we look back at our time in high school. 

Nothing of this age is of great importance except to realize that it is all of God.  It is a rehearsal for the great opening night play.  Count the ups as joy and count the downs as joy for they are.

Have patience and wait on the Lord.

Better yet:
"Wait on the Lord; be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord."  Psalm 27:14
CIY
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2007, 12:29:36 PM »

Thank you for the response ciy.

God is making us into His image, through all this pain and suffering and everything.  It all has a purpose whether we understand it at the time or not.  It all has a purpose and itís making us better and stronger and so on, for the end result. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html

Makes me feel that we should rejoice rather in our sufferings and consider all gain loss but for the gain of Christ when our circumstances present no pressure or challenge. Easier said than done! :) but seeing it said and written is a comfort and reinforcement for the soul and those quiet time outs that our Lord gives us are precious to our knowing Him I believe.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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hillsbororiver

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Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2007, 01:43:54 PM »


Hi Joe,

This life can really throw us some hard stuff.  I hope things are beginning to be worked out in your situation.  Your post reminded me of a part of the Nashville conference, I thought I would post that part here.


mercy, peace and love
Kat



Hello Kat,

The beautiful thing is that when our eyes begin to open to His spiritual Truths these tribulations are much more bearable because we know they are necessary for our development and maturity, yes we are Sons and Daughters first but as babes not mature enough to fully receive our inheretence, that maturity comes through learning obedience and living in faith.

I have a great amount of empathy for those who do not yet see this process as being for our benefit, who feel alone and without hope, we know we are blessed by our afflictions where they only see a "strange thing" befalling them.

Thank you for reposting that timely and very relevant article!




I think our Lord sent you that message to encourage you Joe. Just think how that artical began in His eyes. He knows the beginning from the end and knew you would read it at the time you read it and be caused to see that quotation He knew you would post here in the Forum for us!

You are not alone in your suffering.
 

Thank you Arcturus,

I believe you are exactly right, the Lord placed that bit of wisdom before me at a very needed time, it is a beautiful feeling when we recognize His influence and guidance in our lives. It was a perfect and relaxing time when I was given this Eureka! moment.


Psa 105:7  He is the LORD our God: his judgments are in all the earth.

Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

What a glorious promise!

His Peace to you,

Joe

 
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2007, 02:32:35 PM »

Hello Joe,

Thanks for your post. It is a source of encouragement and strength for us to hold strong in our faith in Him that does all in His ultimate glory.  What most don't usually see is how what glorifies Him benefits us.  Your post surely goes a long way in helping us over that hurdle. 

I continue to hold you and all involved in my prayers.


be blessed
feat


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skydreamers

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Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2007, 02:34:18 PM »

We have stories of those who were stoned, sawed in two, murdered in cold blood; stories of vagrants wandering the earth in animal skins, homeless, friendless, powerless-- the world didn't deserve them!--making their way as best they could on the cruel edges of the world. Not one of these people, even though their lives of faith were exemplary, got their hands on what was promised. God had a better plan for us: that their faith and our faith would come together to make one completed whole, their lives of faith not complete apart from ours. Do you see what this means--all these pioneers who blazed the way, all these veterans cheering us on? It means we'd better get on with it. Strip down, start running--and never quit! No extra spiritual fat, no parasitic sins.

Keep your eyes on Jesus, who both began and finished this race we're in. Study how he did it. Because he never lost sight of where he was headed--that exhilarating finish in and with God--he could put up with anything along the way: cross, shame, whatever. And now he's there, in the place of honor, right alongside God. When you find yourselves flagging in your faith, go over that story again, item by item, that long litany of hostility he plowed through. That will shoot adrenaline into your souls! In this all-out match against sin, others have suffered far worse than you, to say nothing of what Jesus went through--all that bloodshed!

So don't feel sorry for yourselves. Or have you forgotten how good parents treat children, and that God regards you as his children? My dear child, don't shrug off God's discipline, but don't be crushed by it either. It's the child he loves that he disciplines; the child he embraces, he also corrects. God is educating you; that's why you must never drop out. He's treating you as dear children. This trouble you're in isn't punishment; it's training, the normal experience of children. Only irresponsible parents leave children to fend for themselves. Would you prefer an irresponsible God? We respect our own parents for training and not spoiling us, so why not embrace God's training so we can truly live?

While we were children, our parents did what seemed best to them. But God is doing what is best for us, training us to live God's holy best. At the time, discipline isn't much fun. It always feels like it's going against the grain. Later, of course, it pays off handsomely, for it's the well-trained who find themselves mature in their relationship with God. So don't sit around on your hands! No more dragging your feet! Clear the path for long-distance runners so no one will trip and fall, so no one will step in a hole and sprain an ankle. Help each other out. And run for it!

Hebrews 11:37-12:13 (The Message)


Thank you for a very encouraging thread Joe!

Peace,
Diana
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2007, 02:36:40 PM »

God has been teaching me to stay in the minute and not look ahead. The minutes can be hard enough. I remember on one of Ray's audios he said don't look at the future. Today is hard enough. If I think about doing this for the rest of my life I start to panic. If I think about the moment I can get through it.

There was a time when I felt overwhelmingly blessed to see what I see and hear what I hear when most can't see or hear it at all. May we always be thankful that God has given us eyes to see and ears to hear. For years I was asking God to give me his Holy Spirit. I just didn't feel like I had the Holy Spirit. I am beginning to see that this is the Holy Spirit at work in us perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Our suffering is also a blessing. I still kick a lot though. I don't like it. It hurts.

Matthew 3:
 11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Romans 6:4-6  

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


1 Peter 4
 1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

 2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Philippians 3:
 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
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Gregor

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2007, 06:31:57 PM »

Hello Kat,

The beautiful thing is that when our eyes begin to open to His spiritual Truths these tribulations are much more bearable because we know they are necessary for our development and maturity, yes we are Sons and Daughters first but as babes not mature enough to fully receive our inheretence, that maturity comes through learning obedience and living in faith.


    
Re: Is this judgeing?
ę Reply #56 on: Today at 05:59:42 AM Ľ

Hello Alex

Just a few observations.

Babylon teaches that there are saved and born again members of the body of Christ BEFORE the resurrection to life in Christ or judgment at the White Throne. Hence the confusion. Smiley

For me there are no sons or daughters yet except one and that is Christ. For some there is the conception of His Spirit within and the race to finish the test of faith and trial of our fidelity to Christ.

You say : However, i noticed that those who have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are the sons and daughters of God.

We do not know who is and who isn't elected to sonship and daughter status yet. Only God knows His own. For us we have the Hope to be called sons and daughters but it is not yet that the sons and daughters have been made manifest.


Greetings,
So which is it? Are we sons/daughters or not? Both Joe and Arcturus are "hero members" yet seem to be presenting conflicting statements. Maybe its just me who's confused??  ???What does Ray teach? I'm not trying to create controversy, just trying to clarify. Furthermore, I know that some scriptures appear to contradict, but are really oxymorons. Like the statement, "God is not the author of confusion" yet Gen. 11:7 says "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."  Ambiguous words >:(
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2007, 07:21:47 PM »

Hello Kat,

The beautiful thing is that when our eyes begin to open to His spiritual Truths these tribulations are much more bearable because we know they are necessary for our development and maturity, yes we are Sons and Daughters first but as babes not mature enough to fully receive our inheretence, that maturity comes through learning obedience and living in faith.


    
Re: Is this judgeing?
ę Reply #56 on: Today at 05:59:42 AM Ľ

Hello Alex

Just a few observations.

Babylon teaches that there are saved and born again members of the body of Christ BEFORE the resurrection to life in Christ or judgment at the White Throne. Hence the confusion. Smiley

For me there are no sons or daughters yet except one and that is Christ. For some there is the conception of His Spirit within and the race to finish the test of faith and trial of our fidelity to Christ.

You say : However, i noticed that those who have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are the sons and daughters of God.

We do not know who is and who isn't elected to sonship and daughter status yet. Only God knows His own. For us we have the Hope to be called sons and daughters but it is not yet that the sons and daughters have been made manifest.


Greetings,
So which is it? Are we sons/daughters or not? Both Joe and Arcturus are "hero members" yet seem to be presenting conflicting statements. Maybe its just me who's confused??  ???What does Ray teach? I'm not trying to create controversy, just trying to clarify. Furthermore, I know that some scriptures appear to contradict, but are really oxymorons. Like the statement, "God is not the author of confusion" yet Gen. 11:7 says "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."  Ambiguous words >:(

Rom 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Rom 8:15  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Gal 3:25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 4:4  But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Gal 4:6  And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Gal 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


But


it should be noted, that manifestation, is yet to come

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.



manifestation:

G602
ἀποκάλυψις
apokalupsis
ap-ok-al'-oop-sis
From G601; disclosure: - appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.


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rocky

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2007, 07:26:04 PM »

Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons.


If no one is a son, then no one is being chastised. 
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Gregor

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2007, 07:47:38 PM »


Rom.4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2007, 08:09:31 PM »


Hi Gregor,

The thing is, while we are in the physical flesh we are still male and female.  So for now it is a part of our idenity in this life, and pf course that goes for those few chosen, God knows who His physical sons and physical daughters being prepared are, but He is no respecter of persons, and in the spirit there is no difference.  

This is from Ray's Bible study 'Esther - The Destiny of women.'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5506.0.html ---------------------------

Act 10:34  And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Alright weíll except that, the word of God says it, we should believe it.  Notice this in Corinthians.

2 Cor 6:18  And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to Me sons and DAUGHTERS, says the Lord Almighty.

Did He leave women out?  No, ďsons and daughters.Ē  Even though sons is used more often, daughters is in there, sons and daughters.  God will be a Father to His sons and daughters.  God is no respecter of persons.  

Gal 3:28  There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be NO MALE AND FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
v
v
there are lessons to be learned for both.  Men should learn the finer traits of femininity.  Women should learn the virtuous quality of masculinity.  

The perfect balance in all of this is Jesus Christ, who created them both.  If Jesus Christ created man and woman, male and female, donít you think He drew upon something to come up with what they are?  The creation came out of the mind of God.  So there is no inequality there.  They are both to learn.  Just because the man is over the wife and the wife is subject to the husband, is not a degrading position anymore than the church being subject to Christ is a degrading position.  It is a very honorable position.  Can we not agree on that?  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat


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Gregor

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2007, 09:27:42 PM »

Greetings Kat,
I think you missed my point. In post #9 I'm not asking if we are sons or daughters, but if it's correct to say we are sons and daughters. Regardless of gender, lets say children, is it ok to say we are children or do we only become children after the resurrection? This is where our words become ambiguous and there seems to be conflicting opinions on what is the correct terminology. Ultimately, I don't go for the "once saved always saved" teachings, which also would apply to the "once a child, always a child" of God philosophy. I believe sometimes our words get in the way and result in conflict.

Rom.11:16-25
[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So the question remains, why the discrepency over terminology? Do you have a link from Ray's teachings? Thanks.
G.
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 09:58:56 PM »


Rom.4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.



I think this is a good verse, and personally I think we can call ourselves "children", because God does; and so did Paul;

but only because he calls things as if they "are", even though they are not.  Completion/manifestation isn't till after resurrection. 

good point.



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Kat

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Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 12:49:37 AM »


Hi Gregor,

There is this bit that Ray has concerning knowing if you are children of God. 

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -------------------

ARE YOU "CALLED AND CHOSEN" OR JUST "CALLED?"

Let me first state that there is an order in the process of being called to Sonship. First you are called, and then you are chosen from among the called. And we have already learned that the "chosen" are also the "few." Quite frankly, not unlike a casting call. Many are called to come to the casting rehearsal, but only a relative few will be chosen for the actual performance. Which are you? I will not be your personal judge, however, as we progress in this series, you will be confronted with dozens of Scriptures by which you can JUDGE YOURSELF by the aid of Godís Spirit.
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The Apostles use the terms children of God when referring to the believers they were teaching.

1John 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be...

Rom 8:13  ...but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
v. 14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
v. 15  For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
v. 16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
v. 17  And if we are children, then we are heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; so that if we suffer with Him, we may also be glorified together.

I think it is like Ray said, you can JUDGE YOURSELF by the aid of Godís Spirit.  It is only by the Spirit of Christ indwelling that we are children of God, and as Paul said, The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
I think if we feel like we have been wakened to the scriptures and by the truth that we share here, and our lives are being changed, that is the Holy Spirit and we are the children of God.  We can hope and pray we are predestinated to remain faithful to the end, because we do not know for sure.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 02:53:54 AM »

As Kat says and as is taught in Ray Smiths teachings....we do not know for sure.

You may call yourself a child of God but it is the Spirit of God that is the witness. Without the Spirit of God you can call yourself Christ and believe it too :D and be heading to hear the words from the Lord " I know you not...depart from me...."  But But but ...... :D

Then again you may think someone else is a child of God and forget that only God knows the heart. Then you might think a person is a Child of God or an Elect and be very wrong. All we can do and all we should be doing is judging ourselves not putting ourselves on a pedestal and going around thinking we are elect or the Children and others have lost the mark. For all have sinned and non are yet saved.

I believe only God knows what He is doing, how He is doing it and what we have in store for us if we are tried and tested and proved faithful! To that end let us endure, encourage and run our race knowing that we fail, we are infirm and although sin may no longer have dominion over us we are still liable to temptations and conformation into the image of Christ. For this it is written

Heb 4 : 15 For DO WE NOT have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a SHARED FEELING WITH OUR WEAKNESSESS AND INFIRMITIES AND LIABILITY  to the  ASSAULTS OF TEMPTATION ( Every time you see violence against the innocent, do you not suffer the assault ? to your sense of goodness, holiness and propriety with God?) but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.  16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of GRACE ( That is ..DIVINE INFLUENCE ON OUR HEARTS...ref Ray Smith teachings) and obtain MERCY , and find GRACE to help in time of need.

I submit to you all, is there any among you my Brethren who would say that our TIME OF NEED is passed?

Therefore let us not concern ourselves with apparent contradictions and appearances of conflict or oppsing views. Let us know, believe and adhere to our working out our salvation in fear and trembling knowing that God is working all to the good for those who love Him. Let our loving Him be our standard and encouragement and let us continue to prepare ourselves for His return and to help each other with encouragements and a share in the burden of our chastisements and disciplines recieved at the mighty knowing loving and all wise hand of our Father.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

 

« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 02:59:06 AM by Arcturus »
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DuluthGA

  • Guest
Re: God's Blueprint
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 05:52:22 PM »

Godís blueprint?  Answer:  Hands down, The Way of the Cross. 

Christís triumph on Golgotha is the victory and the power and with this is implied His resurrection.

Heb 2: 14   Since the children are made of flesh and blood, itís logical that the Savior took on flesh and blood in order to rescue them by his death.  By embracing death, taking it into Himself, He destroyed the devilís hold on death and freed all who cower through life, scared to death of death.  [MSG]

Eph 1: 20a   All this energy issues from Christ:  God raised Him from death and set him on a throne in deep heaven, in charge of running the universe, [MSG]

Why doesnít the vast majority of Christians realize that each of us has victory and power in Christ by following Him and entering into a likeness of His death?  Answer:  Itís not a very palatable subject to preach and would not be a popular money-generator as the masses prefer smooth/easy talk, plus most church-going Christians do not spend much time studying His Word and obeying what they read there.... when there are about eighty verses about this in the N.T. alone.  Bottom line:  It is Godís plan for most to be blinded and then become graced with His truths in stages, some getting more of the measure of His spirit than others.

I believe all are children of God, believers and non, and that itís just a matter of time for the nonbelieversí conversion.  If you peel back the flesh, thereís God in all of us, and we all fulfill His intention and we all serve our own eventual mutual benefit.  I believe thatís why it makes sense to adhere to nonviolent resistance to evil, besides the fact that itís a direct command from Christ.

Col 3: 11   where there is no Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave or freeman, but Christ is all things and in all. [Greenís Literal Translation]

 :)


« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 11:40:31 PM by DuluthGA »
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