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Gregor:
Greetings sonofone,

Just a few comments (Your words in blue, my response in black)

I think it would help to get clarification on this issue for in my opinion it would have serious ramifications on how we view scriptures.

If God has given you revelation on a truth, it will only have serious ramifications on how you view the scriptures. Not that you can't share this revelation (I encourage you to!) in hope that the spirit will open their eyes too, but remember that it is God who must do the eye opening. I can't tell you how many times in my life God has given me that "ah-ha" moment, where the lightbulb goes on and I finally see some truth ever-so-clear. Then, excitedly, I try to share it with others and they sit there looking at me like, "oh, yeah, ok" or "well duh" or with a blank, "so what?" stare or like I'm just crazy, and I then would feel stupid for even trying to explain the wonderful revelation I just received. Don't be discouraged when others don't share in the same excitement as you, or when they "just don't get it." Continue sharing your portion with others, but always take the revelation to heart (as very special) for it was given to you, yourself and see what serious ramifications happen in your walk/understanding.

I don't think that any reasonable person can disagree that Miracles,signs and wonders are not in existence to the extent that they were after the church got it's start so to speak,

I would have to disagree in part with what you say. I think we read of all the miracles, signs and wonders written in the bible (for our admonition), and then assume that they're not to that extent today. But that is limited to individual perspective. I'm convinced, as I've heard testimony of many miracles, signs/wonders, from people who smuggle bibles into communist china, or Russia, etc. or from missionaries, and just other normal people who've had God do something for them in the course of their normal everyday lives. You're driving your car, go to pull out from one street turning onto another. You look both ways - appears clear, and then start to pull out. Suddenly out of nowhere theres another vehicle that zooms by almost hitting you and potentially killing you. You say to yourself, "Oh my god, that was close. I could have died." Then you drive on, be it a little shaken at your "near death experience" and may never give it a second thought. But know forsure that it is by God's hand that you have your breath of life and very being. It is often by His divine intervention and grace that we have lived the life we live. Others will always have different stories - the key is in connecting with them. It should be interesting (Judgement Day) when our lives are exposed for all to see at just how many signs/wonders and miracles God has done. Unfortunately, often these things go completely unreported, unrecorded, and sometimes unrecognized for what they are and who's their source. But if everything Jesus ever did (and still does by His Spirit) were to be recorded, there wouldn't be room for it in a library.

further it is impossible for any reasonable person to say that the four gospels did not show Jesus upholding the Old Testament,so why should it be considered a New Testament writing?

Jesus is the "New Testament" and he is the "Old Testament", and he made a better covenant with us than the works of the Law ever could. His words on the cross, "It is finished" have always facinated me. What is that "IT" he speaks of?

Jesus said he did not come but for the lost sheep of Israel,it was not right to give the children's bread to the dogs, These are obviously Old covenant or transitional doctrine teachings.

Yes, and that was because the Jews were the ones who had to reject their own messiah that He might reconcile all man to Himself. Remember how Paul talks about their unbelief and disobedience is part of the plan, and for our benefit?? Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
[29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
[30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
[32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
[33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

If we can see this I think we can move away from viewing this bible in a static view and see it as a dynamic gospel or evolving or changing maturing gospel.

If you see the entire Word of God (Scriptures both OT/NT) in light of the Word is Jesus then you will realize that: Heb.4:12 For the word of God is living, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Pretty serious ramifications, I agree!

sonofone:
Thanks for responding G and as always you leave me with many things to digest and ponder.Thanks again

Gregor:
Greetings sonofone,
Just thought I'd add a little more meat for you to chew on ;D:
1Cor.11:
[19] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
[28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
[29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
[30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
[31] For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I always appreciate your questions and input too.
Peace
G.

sonofone:
For the record G, I do believe in miracles,and that God is capable of passing judgement as the scripture you mentioned many sleep. What I am asking you to agree with or consider is how many church people take communion and live and not die? I just believe that it is obvious that God deals with the current church in a different way than he did during the old testament and the transition period. If we could get consensus on this I believe it would help heal our understanding of what God is doing and what he is requiring of us.

indianabob:
sonofone,

regarding the OT NT.
I'm sure that you are aware that the 'people of God' in the O.T. didn't have the indwelling holy spirit.  Their requirement was that they obey the leaders set over them by observing the written law.  It seems to me then, that they didn't obey out of love for God although perhaps from respect reverence and fear of consequences.  Isn't that the major difference between the OT and the New better covenant?

I would also note that many if not most people that we contact in churches are not the spiritual people of God in the best sense.  Most attend out of habit rather than a desire to please God based upon true knowledge.  So what kind of miracles should we expect and with what frequency?

From the perspective of a believer in the time of the apostles, was there a transition that was obvious to them.  The letters of the NT were some time in coming and the folks there had the same background that they had grown up with.  True, they now had the REAL Messiah and were thrilled about that and they had the teaching that the law would no longer be a confusing burden as administered by the priests, but their faith, it seems to me, was pretty basic and simple and based upon the promises in the OT along with the clarifications provided by Jesus through the apostles.  e.g. love your enemies

Comment?

Bob

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