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Gregor:
Greetings,
Ray teaches that there are four things that happen with sin.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html
So there are four things that happen with sin:
1. Committed
2. Remitted
3. Repented
4. Removed
I've recently been pondering "temptation" and how it fits into this process. It would seem to me that the temptation comes before the "committed" stage and if one can overcome the temptation, the act of committing would not come into play. But, some sins are not as obvious as others ie: coveting, but that is a condition of the heart, as is hatred, lusting, etc. So I've come to the conclusion that sin is committed in the heart prior to any action being taken. That is where the "committed" takes place, not in the manifestation of the sin through actions.
Romans 14:23
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
How does this fit in with the temptation of Jesus in Matt.4? (Keep in mind the following Matt. 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”)
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
What is being tempted, the physical hunger or the faith in the word of God?
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘ In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’” Here again, same thing being tested, Jesus faith in what God told him. Only this time, satan must twist the scriptures as his weapon of choice.
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” (Here we find satan's last attempt at attacking the faith, appealing to the "Pride of life" and lust for the things of this world. We know Jesus heart is for the will of God, not the things of this world and that Jesus stands firm again in the word of God.)
10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
Every time Jesus faith is attacked, He responds with statements of faith. Jesus knew how to rightly divide the word of truth. I pray that this will be my response. I hope that this will help shed some light on what happens prior to the "committing" stage of sin. Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. All sin is a result of questioning (temptation or testing) the word of God and that all stems out of our hearts, not in the actions themselves. I hope this isn't preaching what I think, but that it is a revelation worth sharing.
G.
Deborah-Leigh:
If we go back and review this thread I think Jer has put his finger on the pulse right in the start of the Thread. Just shows, a comment made is not unimportant even if at first it goes seemingly unnoticed. Jer reminds us of the principle of first the natural then the spiritual. If we understand His Word then we better understand and come to know HIM for He IS the Word that was made flesh and died and is resurrected right?
Quoting Ray:
Man is not a "spirit being" having a "physical" experience, but rather man is a "physical and mortal" being having a "spiritual" experience. We are first born mortal [physical], but in the resurrection God gives us immortality (the spiritual). Throw away this marvellous truth of Scripture, and you will be as deceived... http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
I believe this answers your poignant question for which I thank you Rocky.
Yes Beloved…speed wobble, womb wobble…it is all one! ;D I am not yet born again! I do not know yet that when I am born again if I will come out as the umbilical cord or the baby. I hope the baby perfected image of Jesus Christ! it is one thing to bring nourishment of the Word and it is quite another thing to BE the Baby!....Womb wobble again? I will be thinking of you thinking of me when I see a pregnant woman again. In fact I will be thinking of THIS FORUM!
MG your contribution on this tread nails it for me. Thank you for reflecting the image of Christ and His Truth. Here is what you observed for our edification and encouragement to see! I believe a baby can see in the womb right Beloved? Okay I know I know its dark ;D :D Here is what you presented
Here is comment from Ray in today's email reply. Quote:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5691.0.html
COMMENT: No, all will be saved regardless of what they "have DONE," not according to what they are "still DOING." Sin must ultimately be repented of and taken out of the sinner through Judgment.
Unquote.
This says for me that the sin has to be TAKEN OUT OF THE SINNER. For me this is in the process of being born again resulting in one of two judgements either the one NOW on the House of Gods CHOSEN or later at the White Throne. Jesus said better the one NOW not later. That makes sense for it is better to be called and obey than called and disobey. Better the few chosen than the many called.
So for me Darren until we receive a clean heart of the Lord in full, we are still in the process of womb growth into His Image.
Gregor thank you for pulling back another layer to expose some more truth. As Jesus said the even to THINK wrong is to DO wrong. So that which THINKS carnal will be removed and this is the Will of God for us all.
Jesus did not sin. He was sinless. He did not have ONE sinful thought. NOT ONE>…Makes me think again…..Makes you think doesn’t it?
Peace to womb dwellers
Arcturus. :)
Grateful:
Hello all,
Methinks if our inner Hunger is so great that we tell God intensely earnestly, "God, I want to be GOOD!! " , that starts the ball really rolling for us, spiritually. He HEARS!! :) :D And our perfection (by Him) comes near faster!! ( "Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness [ = justice, according to Rotherham's Emphasized Bible ] , for they SHALL be FILLED." )
With much love! :D
Linda
DuluthGA:
I like the way both Arcturus and Beloved put forth what Beloved called "the rebirth progression." ;) And I liked Arcturus' statement which indicates this process.
--- Quote ---I see this as being that the sin is not removed unless the Spirit is conceived and born again through stage 1,2 and 3 and finally upon resurrection at point 4. for those so chosen.
--- End quote ---
Although it would seem with the help of the great detective work of MG with the Ray quote edifiying, at least for me, that "part 4/sin removal" is occurring as a process now in our judgment in the here and now.... OUCH! :D ;D To be completed upon resurrection.
And thanks Beloved as I hadn't realized the Scriptures know nothing of being "born again." Three verses come up in the KJV when searching this particular word set and they are translated in the CLNT as:
Jhn 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If anyone should not be begotten anew, he can not perceive the kingdom of God."
Jhn 3: 7 You should not be marveling that I said to you, 'You must be begotten anew.'
1Pet 1: 23 having been regenerated, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, living and permanent,
It's a technicality but worth noting for more accurate communication on the subject.
:)
dessa:
Darren,
My answer to your question:
My question to anyone reading this, is: Do you consider yourself the same person still, after having your eyes, ears and hearts opened by the Spirit.
I am not the same person as before.
And to this question:
Let me add also, that I believe (at least) I am still yet a babe in the truth, and have much learning and growing before any would call me mature. But praise be to God for all that he has given me.
There is a vast difference in my understanding of scripture now and what I first understood. Don't know what growth category that puts me in. I am not a babe, however. The BT web site would not have interested me when I was a babe in Christ.
Has the Holy Spirit led anyone to desire knowledge about how to talk to children about the truths we now know? My leading is to ask the question only.
Shalom,
dessa
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