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Finished?
Chris R:
Hi,
Has Gods plan flown out the window because of our ability to resist him? And now that i have successfully resisted Gods plan for me, does God now go on to plan B? I think not, EVERYTHING we are, and all we do, is of God.
We cannot even REPENT if God has not given us a desire to do so. WHY?
Because He hath mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will, he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:18-19
Tough love....
Peace
Chris R
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you for your post Chris R. It gives comfort to again be edified to know that God is Sovereign.
From LOF quoting Ray :
First it is most important that we look at and understand the word translated "will" in Rom. 9:19. It is not the usually Greek word, which is translated "will" hundreds of times in the New Testament. This Greek word boulema is used but twice in the Bible, here in Rom. 9:19 and in Acts 27:43 where it is translated "purpose."
So the question that Paul is setting up is not "…who has resisted His will?" but rather, "who has resisted His purpose [His plan, His intention]?"
To the question, "…who has resisted His will?" the answer is: EVERYONE! But when properly translated, to the question, "who has resisted His purpose?" the answer is: ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
Does anyone have ability to resist God? NO! I do not believe that our resistance comes out of ABILITY but out of WEAKNESS and our CARNALITY and I believe we resist Him from a unconverted heart and it is as automatic to do so like a sinning machine.
From LOF part 2 Quote:
"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!
^
^
^
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Mat. 15:19). http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Gregor:
Greetings,
In light of what's just been posted, could someone shed light on these two verses?
Heb.6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Heb.10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Strongs: willfully 1596 hekousiōs, 1) voluntarily, willingly, of one's own accord
a) to sin wilfully as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately, and from ignorance or from weakness
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello G.
"..if they fall away..." That is key. If we fall away or remain faithfull is in God's plan. Some may come to the Babylonian System, hear the word of God, get it and then decide that the fellowship and camaraderie of the social system is worth more than taking up the cross to follow Christ OUT OF HER! Just a thought...There after is the second death LOF.
..."if we sin WILLFULLY..." For me that points to the willfully rebellious nature of the carnal man who is at deep seated enmity and hate for God. That sounds pretty willful to me! :)
This calls to mind the parable of the seed sown on the wayside, shallow or thorny ground.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
skydreamers:
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Hebrews 6:1-8
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ....I see something in this that speaks to those who are not "growing up" in Christ. They have "tasted the heavenly gift" including universalism which I believe is represented in "eternal judgment" (judgment in an age when all will learn righteousness Isa 26:9). There is so much more to growing and being pruned in this age than just knowing that God is going to save everybody. I am learning myself about the unfathomable depths and layers that seemingly is overwhelming. But if we simply stay where we are at and do not keep going in truth, than we are resting in comfortable carnality and not taking up our spiritual cross. The truth is not easy, though it brings freedom.
I think it may be that this verse is saying that "it is impossible to restore them again to repentance" in this age. Repentance means to change your ways and mind. If you have fallen away, you have stopped changing your ways and mind and your destiny is to continue this process later in the lake of fire. In other words, God has seen fit that your purpose to grow later, serves something greater in the grand scheme. It must, otherwise why would God "cause" such" a condition in someone.
If we, through Christ, produce crops that (notice) are "useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated", than those works are blessed. The Elect bringing the rest of the world to salvation. The Elect's crop is for the rest of humanity, just as The Elect is the crop/planting for and of the Lord. Producing a good crop is not for yourself but for the benefit of others.
The thorns and thistles are works by the called but not chosen, fit for destruction. (Eg. How to Gain Financial Freedom in the Lord in Seven Steps, How to Prosper and Receive Physical Blessings in this Life...yada yada yada) People who focus on teaching these kinds of things have no idea that they are "crucifying once again the Son of God", so why on earth would they even think to repent?? Yet these are the very people who think they are God's chosen.
I do not think that having the truth about the elementary (basic) doctrines of Christ:
1. repentance from dead works
2. faith
3. instructions on washings (cleaning the inside of the cup)
4. laying on of hands (receiving the holy spirit)
5. resurrection of the dead (putting on immortality)
6. eternal judgment (all the world learning righteousness)
is any kind of assurance that you are of the Chosen and will "endure to the end".
You have not yet struggled and fought agonizingly against sin, nor have you yet resisted and withstood to the point of pouring out your [own] blood.
Hebrews 12:4
I think this is another warning to those who think they are the "Elect" like many Christians do, especially those who have "come out" of the Church who have been given grand truths:
Therefore let anyone who thinks he stands, who feels sure that he has a steadfast mind and is standing firm, take heed lest he fall into sin.
1 Corinthians 10:12
If we, as a Christian, feel secure in thinking that we are Chosen, we are in a dangerous condition to become complacent and arrogant...Didn't the Pharisees think they were the Chosen Seed? I'm not saying we can't be confident in reaching for the prize, but really it's a fine line, which is why our salvation is worked out with fear and trembling.
So I see the many called as being stagnant or at the very least still on milk, focusing still on carnal needs, and the few chosen (Elect) are ever growing and being disciplined in the Lord.
If the many called are stagnant, it is because the Lord is not dealing with them in this age. He is not yet bringing them through their spiritual purposeful suffering required for perfection. They are still back there with the masses, crucifying the Lord "to their own harm"....(their own harm will be the second death which does NOT harm the Elect who produce the right crop....)
Anyways, that's how I'm seeing it.
By the way, wonderful, beautiful thread everyone!
Peace,
Diana
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