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Finished?
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Diana
Thank you for the contribution and participation to the spirit of this thread. Here is what stood out for me from your post. Quote " ......think it may be that this verse is saying that "it is impossible to restore them again to repentance" in this age. Repentance means to change your ways and mind. If you have fallen away, you have stopped changing your ways and mind and your destiny is to continue this process later in the lake of fire. In other words, God has seen fit that your purpose to grow later, serves something greater in the grand scheme. It must, otherwise why would God "cause" such" a condition in someone.
^
^
... the many called are stagnant, it is because the Lord is not dealing with them in this age. He is not yet bringing them through their spiritual purposeful suffering required for perfection. They are still back there with the masses, crucifying the Lord "to their own harm"....(their own harm will be the second death which does NOT harm the Elect who produce the right crop....)
I believe the reason why we must COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE. Do NOT take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. Rev 18 : 4 fits perfectly with what you have articulated Diana. Thank you.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
skydreamers:
Hi Arcturus,
I was just reading Genesis and came across something that reminded of the post I wrote earlier...it is these verses that jumped out at me:
And to Adam He said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it! The ground is cursed for your sake. In pain shall you eat of it all the days of your life. It shall also bring forth thorns and thistles to you, and you shall eat the herb of the field.
Gen 3:17-18
Now read again the passage in Hebrews:
For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Heb 6:7-8
Remember the teaching from Ray that the earth represents "the called" in that they are slightly raised out of the "sea of humanity" but have not yet reached heaven. Even the highest peak on this planet (Mount Everest?) cannot be said to reach into the heavens. This is a parable of the church condition...those who call themselves God's people. The many called, but not the few chosen.
The word "land" in Hebrews is translated by the KJV as earth and in fact carries the meaning of soil, ground, land, earth.
The word "ground" in Genesis is the Hebrew word "adamah" also meaning soil, earth, ground, land.
Notice in Genesis it is the adamah/earth that God curses and not adam/mankind.
The earth was cursed from the beginning in that it would only ever produce "thorns and thistles" fit to be burned. Now whether one sees this as Babylon, the church system, or the carnal nature...it all fits in harmony because it all comes from the same source.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:10
This further substantiates the need to "come out of her my people" as you've pointed out Arcturus. Come out of carnality!
It does seem to me that the "earth" could also point to the carnal nature/flesh of dust body that will need to be destroyed before we can put on the spiritual body. Again, the "adamah"....the soil, the dust, the flesh is cursed...but not "adam" the man himself. The works of the flesh are thorns and thistles and shall be burned up though the man himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
Whatever Babylon is, the "earth" and its thorns and thistles are surely part of it. whatever the flesh produces results in deceit, lies etc etc etc whether in religion or the world. Carnality has got to go!
Let us pray that God will call us out completely that we should not partake of her plagues. Let us continue to strive forward, reaching for that high calling, past the mountain peaks to the very realm of the kingdom of heaven. This is my prayer for my family of brothers and sisters here at the forum, and elsewhere scattered throughout the world.
Yet even so, our minds, our "heavens" are also destined to be cleansed with fire and I pray that we should welcome it and not resist the coming of the Lord.
Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation...
2Pe 3:11-15
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission. Therefore it was necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves (that's us, our inner hearts/minds) were purified with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:22-23
In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
Heb 12:4
So back to your question in your first post Arcturus:
Are there some things that happen with forgiveness?
no blood = no remission
G859 remission: (release from bondage or imprisonment, forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed)
Jesus is the way. He has set the pattern: without shedding of blood there is no remission. It seems somehow, we must spiritually shed our own blood before the heavens of our minds are cleansed of all impurities and all sin is removed....burned and melted away to make way for the new heavens (cleansed minds) and new earth (new vessel, incorruptible spiritual bodies).
Peace,
Diana
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Diana
It is I believe the spirit of the Forum wherein sometimes some threads resonate and mirror others. In this instance your latest post for me, reflects what is in the "Our Father" thread in the Testimony section of the Forum. You might see what I mean if you take a look.
Regarding what you observe quote :
Heb 9:22-23 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
Do you think it is a prerequisite that we shed our blood in order to have remission? Is it our blood or the already shed blood of the offering for our sin, our bad blood, evil ways and carnality, that is the offering for our sin. Do you think we have to shed our blood not in a literal way but in the symbolic way of shedding our genetic lineage with the first Adam and being through the Second Adam Jesus Christ, made one with HIM? I think so. This is surely what judgment is all about. Our death to self. HIS blood has been shed for us. We now have to shed our bad blood too in repentance and conformation to His Image. Of course non of this can be achieved by man but with God. For with God all things are possible.
This carnality tail goes way back into allegiance with error, traditions and sins to deception. Only by His Spirit can we be free.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
jER:
Diana and Arcturus,
Truly the corruptible must give way to the incorruptible; a new creation.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed (rendered inoperative), that henceforth, we should not serve (be slaves of) SIN."
"Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
A friend in Christ
- jER
skydreamers:
Hi Arcturus,
--- Quote ---In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
Do you think it is a prerequisite that we shed our blood in order to have remission? Is it our blood or the already shed blood of the offering for our sin, our bad blood, evil ways and carnality, that is the offering for our sin. Do you think we have to shed our blood not in a literal way but in the symbolic way of shedding our genetic lineage with the first Adam and being through the Second Adam Jesus Christ, made one with HIM? I think so. This is surely what judgment is all about. Our death to self. HIS blood has been shed for us. We now have to shed our bad blood too in repentance and conformation to His Image. Of course non of this can be achieved by man but with God. For with God all things are possible.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree with you. The shedding of blood is a type of something spiritual that needs to happen in us. I do think that Jesus living His life through the Elect means that everything He went through the Elect also must go through. As He was made perfect through suffering, so will the Elect, and eventually all mankind be made perfect through suffering. The Elect are hated and persecuted by men. They are crucified with Christ that they may be raised with him. As He is, so are the Elect in the world.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission. Therefore it was necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves were purified with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:22-23
Notice that this is all in the plural form...the patterns in the heavens but the heavenly things purified with better sacrifices.....
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me (the Elect) will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
John 14:12
Peace to you,
Diana
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