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saved through what?!
fe32k:
Thanks Everyone,
I am aware and believe all the teachings in Bible-truths. But as Ray says, when the scriptures speak of being saved, it can sometimes be referring to the elect. Sure the scriptures are spiritual, but I think Kat makes a good point as well as Chris. I am going to ponder on this a little longer. My wife and I had a debate regarding this scripture and I want to make sure I give her a scriptural answer. She sees it as just another example of how the Bible demeans women. I need to show her this is not the case.
Thanks Again,
Roy
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: fe32k on November 05, 2007, 09:13:06 AM ---
But as Ray says, when the scriptures speak of being saved, it can sometimes be referring to the elect. Sure the scriptures are spiritual, but I think Kat makes a good point as well as Chris. I am going to ponder on this a little longer.
--- End quote ---
Hi Roy,
There is no doubt in my mind that the scriptures have many layers of truth contained within them, remember "first the physical then the spiritual" I can see what everyone else has written here has merit, my own take on this in regard to your question goes back to Romans 8:19-23;
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (The birthing of the Body of Christ?)
We know the church is weak, we know it is deceived but we must also consider how the church has kept the Word intact through the ages, the Temple and Synagogues preserved for us the Old Testatment and the Christian Church has preserved the Bible through the ages, providing the elect in each generation the opportunity to meditate on His Truth.
Of course it was God who directed these things but these institutions are and were the vessels He used in accomplishing this, just as God could have just as easily created each and every person who ever lived just as He created Adam, He chose to use Eve and the women of every generation to create and multiply to suit His purpose.
The chosen come out of the church and will eventually work with the Lord in bringing all men to the Father, they will have a part to play in the salvation of those still in Babylon and beyond. Remember the woman is also symbolic of the church, the virtuous woman for His church and the harlot for the worldly church, both will be brought to perfection through the pain of trial, tribulation and judgment.
This is my take on this topic and of course I am open to any comments or correction if need be.
His Peace to you,
Joe
Gregor:
Here's a thought: Prior to children, God wouldn't be called the "Father," He would only be God. And salvation came through the "Son" therefore salvation was/is only possible because of the role the mother played (Who would need salvation if there were only God?). Quite the honour in fact, not demeaning. In the natural, the mother is not called a mother either, until children are involved. So both the "parents" are necessary in order for there to be offspring. In the spiritual, as Joe just said, this too involves being "brought to perfection through the pain of trial, tribulation and judgment." Childbirth is a type or shadow of the spiritual birthing of the children of God. Following is a verse spoken by Paul: Galatians 4:19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,...
Should men take offense to his statement? Should women take offense to the verse in Timothy? I think only if their spirit is looking for a reason to take offense. The division of labor is clearly seen in Genesis where God tells Adam his labor will be to till the ground and Eve's labor will be through childbirth. Both forms of labor are types and both are equally important to starting and maintaining a "family" - both in the natural and spiritual. What strikes me as important is the words "shall be saved...if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" This applies to men and women alike. We must continue and not give up in pressing towards the prize of the high calling - not yet attained, but it is to come. In the natural, men with carnal thinking have used the verse in Timothy to put a yoke of burden on women, just as they misinterpret many other scriptures. Pray for understanding, for eyes to be opened.
G.
Gregor:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
"joints and marrow" - the natural, carnal thinkers included
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
skydreamers:
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
1 Timothy 2:11-12
Paul said I want your women to be silent and your husbands to teach but this is not so much about real physical women but has a deeper spiritual application. I see the woman as being symbolic of our minds within the “church”. The church is the “temple” which is us...our bodies. The woman is the mind speaking and talking in this body.
God doesn't want “her” speaking but the husband...the Christ IN YOU, that the works produced will not be laden with fear, gossip and unbelief. God is interested in birthing forth the child of righteousness through the woman ( your mind).
But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
1 Timothy 2:15
For it is by this woman ( the mind) birthing the Christ (manifesting his nature to the world) that she (all) shall be saved. The child that we bear in the world is the Christ nature coming through this woman bearing forth His nature and likeness into the world. The Christ nature is what "preserves" the woman (us).
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
So when Paul says, woman be silent in the church, he's speaking of flesh and carnality speaking through our mind in this body. God is going to silence that:
Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.
Zechariah 2:13
Through the woman (your mind) the husband (Christ in you) will manifest Himself and speak for you if you will submit.
Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? It is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ, and all for your upbuilding, beloved.
2 Corinthians 12:19
The same reason goes for woman not teaching...God doesn't want the “woman” in you to teach what she thinks the Word is saying. The fact is the Husband (Christ) is the only one who can teach God's word. The inner fountain (spirit of God) that springs up through the mind and causes you to understand the truth. God giving eyesight.
Christ is coming together with his church, the woman (your mind) is being married to the man (the mind of Christ) and the two are becoming one. And the world is waiting for the offsprings of love.
For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation (the birth) of the sons of God.
Romans 8:19
For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:16
For both He who sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of One...
Hebrews 2:11
Peace,
Diana
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