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Who's standing here?
rjsurfs:
Fe,
If I understand your question correctly...
"Some" will "taste" or experience death in the lake of fire... others with taste it daily... now...
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
Bobby
fe32k:
--- Quote from: Bobby Proctor on November 18, 2007, 07:50:38 PM ---Fe,
If I understand your question correctly...
"Some" will "taste" or experience death in the lake of fire... others with taste it daily... now...
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
Bobby
--- End quote ---
Hey Bobby,
Seems like a stretch to me. Then the correct word would be "most" not "some." Here as an email from Ray which he posted today and why Arcturus is asking the Q:
--- Quote ---As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28). And just when DID they see this? Answer--next verse:
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Where they really, actually, literally, in the flesh "talking with Jesus?" No. Read verse 9:
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It was all a "VISION." It happened in their minds, not unlike a dream--it was only a VISION, but in that vision, they really did see Jesus as He will appear "IN HIS KINGDOM).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5855.0.html
--- End quote ---
It confirms what I was asking, but it does not debunk what Arct says as God can reveal deeper truths to anyone about any verse. The best example of this is when Matthew speaks of:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
as we all know, by reading this quote in Hosea 11:1 there is no indication that it is a prophecy. This kind of stuff cannot be revealed by flesh and blood. God just has not revealed to me that this verse (Matthew 16:28) is speaking of the second death. It's all very possible, but it has not pleased God to reveal this to me as of yet.
May Gods love and grace be with you,
Fe
jER:
"Verily, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste of death till they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."
…Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves. (Matthew 16:28, and 17:1-9)
And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste of death till they see the Kingdom of God present with power."
…Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. (Mark 9:1-10)
"But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Kingdom of God."
…Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. (Luke 9:27-37)
Why the two accounts (Matthew and Mark) saying six days, but Luke says about eight days.
Is it because Jesus often spoke of things, more than once, that were significant of things present (physical) and those things which are to come (spiritual)?
Did Peter, John and James see His Glory, only temporarily (in a vision), as a preview of that which is to come, when He (Jesus) was transfigured before them?
John surely must have had this in mind, when he said, "…And, we beheld His Glory…" (John 1:14). After all, he was an eye witness to the life of Christ.
Peter also said, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16-18)
Could it be that there were those, then, who had not presently tasted of the physical death, as well as that of the second death, perhaps, those who will not see until - "they see"…in the presence of the Lamb (Revelation 14:10)?
I believe that Marks words are closer to the meaning of His Words – "present with power," than that given by Luke or even Matthew, and represents the second coming of Christ in His (Fathers) Glory, not merely as a preview (vision) of things to come.
Regardless of the type of Death; Physical or Spiritual - Jesus spoke the truth, as there were those who had not yet tasted the first death (although they are long dead by now), and there are those who will/shall not taste of the second death, until they are in His Presence!
When the Lord comes EVERYONE will be resurrected; the righteous to the resurrection of life and the unrighteous to the resurrection of judgment. Those who do not go through judgment in this present life will be "Judged" at the Great White Throne Judgment.
God defines the "Judgment" as returning back to righteousness, or setting things right (Psalm 94:15)
JER
The Second Death is the dying to, or death of sin – for the fleshly mind is enmity against God.
Robin:
--- Quote ---As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28).
--- End quote ---
I don't have much to say, but wanted to post this verse for consideration.
Luke 17:20-22
20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: fe32k on November 18, 2007, 07:20:34 PM ---hi,
the verse says "some" inferring that others will taste of this death, so it can not be the lake of fire. This verse is speaking of when Jesus showed the vision of his transfiguration to the two apostles. They did see him coming in his kingdom in that vision. Can someone please correct me if I am wrong.
GBWY,
Fe
--- End quote ---
Hi Fe,
Not wrong but half right!
I previously saw this as you, but now I believe Arcturus did find another layer of Truth in this verse, Jesus is and was speaking to not only those present before Him but for all generations that would read (or hear) His Words.
If you look at what He said we can see that this very well could be applied to those who were to be standing there with Him at His transfiguration as well as those who are alive at His coming and do not taste physical death but are "changed in the twinkling of an eye" and also of those who would be converted (2nd death) after His return.
One of the keys I have picked up from Ray is how we should look beyond the physical "in the moment" application of the Word of God and search for the eternal (is, was and will be) principle in understanding His Word as well.
Just as we can apply what Jesus spoke to the Pharisees to some in every church in every generation, just as the letters to the churches from Paul is applicable to churches through every generation and as the Revelation of Jesus Christ presented to John is relevant to all the churches to every generation.
This is how I presently see it.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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