> General Discussions
God is creating (present) man in His image?
orion77:
This can be a very deep subject, of which there are many different opinions. But, I think it comes down to when Jesus died. Did He actually die or not? This is the question that will settle the debate. And if Jesus did not actually die, how could His life pay for our sins. For the wages of sin is death. But, He took our place, instead of, bore the sins of all, and the penalty was paid in full by Him.
But, if He did not die, and went somewhere for three days, how could He be resurrected, when He never died? And if He never died, then our sins are still accountable to us. So, even Jesus died, so shall we, but He has paid the penalty for our sins. We shall not die forever, but live. We must remember, that all of humanity has not risen, only one, our Lord and now He is our mediator.
We shall still die, but not forever, this is life age during. This is something that most of christianity can never understand. The penalty of sin is death. Jesus paid that penalty for us, we shall still die, but the hope of our belief is in the resurrection. Without it our hope would be in vain.
This whole life we have is like a seed. A seed must be dead, before you plant it to grow fruit. Death is a vital part of life, take death out of the equation, then where is life?
John 17, the whole chapter, must be read in its entirety. These are some of the most beautiful words our Lord ever spoke.
God bless,
Gary
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Joey Porter ---
--- Quote from: SOTW ---
--- Quote from: Joey Porter ---I heard Ray say that the true translation of Genesis 1:27 is that God is creating man in His image - as opposed to created (past tense). This makes sense in that Adam couldn't have sinned if he were perfect.
However, I haven't heard or seen anywhere else that the Hebrew does state that it is a present tense action. Has anyone looked into this or does anyone have anything to offer? Thanks.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Though on his forum, the only thing I can tell you to do is ask Ray Himself.
There is no reason to bring it to a forum in which many different views will conflict with each other and cause some to be banned for freely saying something they did not know was prohibitted and also prevent others from being drawn into vain arguments.
I also say and believe that God is creating (present) man in His image and there is pages of pages of Scripture to support it, though looking at the conversation here, it would be best that it is done one on one with Ray or Mike. It doesn't matter the TRINITY debate, that is a strawman side argument which derails any true progress into understanding we are presently being created in His Image, and the reason exists despite the differences in the dicotomy of the soul.
--- End quote ---
I would love to be able to ask L. Ray and Mike questions via e-mail, with the hopes of having them answered. However, I have emailed Ray once and Mike twice with various inquiries and have never received a response from either man. So, because I really want to know the answers to these things, I have no other choice but to post topics on this board in the hopes that some one here may know. I realize this thread got derailed into a trinity debate, but that was not by my doing. How was I to know that there would be "many different views that will conflict with each other?"
--- End quote ---
Joey, I posted this way earlier in this thread but there was no comment from anyone on the root of the words creation/creature, (there was a livelier debate taking place at the time). This root does not denote a finished product. Look it up.
creature2937
creation2937
G2937
κτίσις
ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.
formation
Function: noun
Pronunciation: fo r-'mA-sh&n
1 : an act of giving form or shape to something or of taking form : DEVELOPMENT
2 : something that is formed <new word formations>
3 : the manner in which a thing is formed : STRUCTURE <the peculiar formation of the heart>
4 : the largest unit in an ecological community comprising two or more associations and their precursors <grassland formation>
5 a : any igneous, sedimentary, or metamorphic rock represented as a unit b : any sedimentary bed or consecutive series of beds sufficiently homogeneous or distinctive to be a unit
6 : an arrangement of a body or group of persons or things in some prescribed manner or for a particular purpose
Joey Porter:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---
--- Quote from: Joey Porter ---
--- Quote from: SOTW ---
--- Quote from: Joey Porter ---I heard Ray say that the true translation of Genesis 1:27 is that God is creating man in His image - as opposed to created (past tense). This makes sense in that Adam couldn't have sinned if he were perfect.
However, I haven't heard or seen anywhere else that the Hebrew does state that it is a present tense action. Has anyone looked into this or does anyone have anything to offer? Thanks.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Though on his forum, the only thing I can tell you to do is ask Ray Himself.
There is no reason to bring it to a forum in which many different views will conflict with each other and cause some to be banned for freely saying something they did not know was prohibitted and also prevent others from being drawn into vain arguments.
I also say and believe that God is creating (present) man in His image and there is pages of pages of Scripture to support it, though looking at the conversation here, it would be best that it is done one on one with Ray or Mike. It doesn't matter the TRINITY debate, that is a strawman side argument which derails any true progress into understanding we are presently being created in His Image, and the reason exists despite the differences in the dicotomy of the soul.
--- End quote ---
I would love to be able to ask L. Ray and Mike questions via e-mail, with the hopes of having them answered. However, I have emailed Ray once and Mike twice with various inquiries and have never received a response from either man. So, because I really want to know the answers to these things, I have no other choice but to post topics on this board in the hopes that some one here may know. I realize this thread got derailed into a trinity debate, but that was not by my doing. How was I to know that there would be "many different views that will conflict with each other?"
--- End quote ---
Joey, I posted this way earlier in this thread but there was no comment from anyone on the root of the words creation/creature, (there was a livelier debate taking place at the time). This root does not denote a finished product. Look it up.
creature2937
creation2937
G2937
κτίσις
ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.
formation
Function: noun
Pronunciation: fo r-'mA-sh&n
1 : an act of giving form or shape to something or of taking form : DEVELOPMENT
2 : something that is formed <new word formations>
3 : the manner in which a thing is formed : STRUCTURE <the peculiar formation of the heart>
4 : the largest unit in an ecological community comprising two or more associations and their precursors <grassland formation>
5 a : any igneous, sedimentary, or metamorphic rock represented as a unit b : any sedimentary bed or consecutive series of beds sufficiently homogeneous or distinctive to be a unit
6 : an arrangement of a body or group of persons or things in some prescribed manner or for a particular purpose
--- End quote ---
Thanks for that. I'll look into that further.
lilitalienboi16:
I honostly don't think Lightseeker your assumptions line up with scripture.
Ive seen you make some, however i still don't know what this debate is about.
Are we arguing The trinity(False doctrine)? Or perhaps wether in Death we live, or die? (Meaning we go up to heaven with God in our spirit, or do we sleep in the grave?)
To me the answer to that is qiuet obviouse, what does scripture say?
"LEST I SLEEP THE SLEEP OF DEATH" to quote King David ;)
And Gensis plainly tells us that because God gave us THE BREATH OF LIFE (Spirit) MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL. So Man is the LIVING SOUL. M
At death, the SPIRIT DEPARTS, It returns to God, and that VERY DAY OUR THOUGHTS PERISH. The living Soul is NO MORE.
How is this not comprehendable? I guess those that are blind are really blind, no matter how much you want them to see, and no matter how much they want to see, THE BLIND CANNOT SEE. I learned that not to long ago, but from reading Rays article and it seems almost elimentary but its very true! You would think i would have understood that, but i didn't hehe. Now i do though! :D Praise be God!
Alright im done rambling i don't know what we are debating, but i decided to flap my lips, errr move my fingers on a keyboard :D
Lightseeker:
lilitalienboi16
--- Quote --- To me the answer to that is qiuet obviouse, what does scripture say?
"LEST I SLEEP THE SLEEP OF DEATH" to quote King David
--- End quote ---
Do you have an address for this verse? I looked in 6 translations before giving up. A little help please.
--- Quote ---Are we arguing The trinity(False doctrine)?
--- End quote ---
I'm trying to understand what it means to be made in the image of God in Genesis.
--- Quote ---Or perhaps wether in Death we live, or die? (Meaning we go up to heaven with God in our spirit, or do we sleep in the grave?)
--- End quote ---
Yes, resurrection life (aonios) in this age, for our mortal soul, will only come from dying to self. At death our spirit goes to God
PHI 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ,
--- Quote ---And Gensis plainly tells us that because God gave us THE BREATH OF LIFE (Spirit) MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL. So Man is the LIVING SOUL. M
--- End quote ---
A traditional interpretation but it doesn't work scripturally for me. I've explained my position earlier with no rebuttal which convinced me differently. :cry:
--- Quote ---At death, the SPIRIT DEPARTS, It returns to God, and that VERY DAY OUR THOUGHTS PERISH. The living Soul is NO MORE.
--- End quote ---
At death the spirit departs and the body dies and decays in sheol along with all the soul (mind, will, emotions) which were never renewed unto the mind of Christ. But that part of the soul which became 'alive' unto Christ will remain unto the day of the bema judgment seat of Christ. There all the works which were 'of the Sspirit led mind of Christ' will receive a reward. The renewed soul sleeps but the unrenewed soul perishes. The soul isn't an all or nothing salvation, it is from one degree to another, and merely measures your spiritual growth. And the glorified body will represent that same degree of spiritual maturity.
That's what I'm thinking anyway. But that's also why I'm always open to hear other opinions :?
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