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First Adam/Second Adam
Brett:
Hi Joe,
I read the posts of "First Adam/Second Adam", this is my first time to read this subject. Are you saying like First Adam is in man's flesh and Second Adam is still same man's flesh before he die? But not spirutal body as resurrection (second Adam)?
Am I right understand you or am I off?
Thanks Joe,
Brett
Deborah-Leigh:
Hey Joe
If I may just add something here ahead of your response. Sorry Brett but I found this that might help.
There is a first, second and THIRD in the process by which all shall be made alive in Christ. Here is how Ray puts it.
....the King James translations is no particular help. Let's read from another version: "Yet each in his own class: [1] the Firstfruit, Christ: [2] there upon those who are Christ's in His presence; [3] thereafter the consummation" (1 Cor. 15.22, Concordant Literal New Testament). The "putting down of His enemies" in verse 25 is the process by which "all shall be made alive IN Christ."
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1431.0.html
In another responce to a personal question I emailed to Ray, he says quote : Although it is true that Jesus has already come to us as a "Comforter," and we are not "IN CHRIST," nonetheless, it does not yet appear what we shall be like when He returns to us and for us: 1 John 3 : 1-2
In another jewel of an insight Ray shared with me in response to another question I sent him via email he wrote back quote:
Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega--the Beginning and the End.
Adam was flesh and blood--Jesus was made flesh and blood.
Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38)--Jesus was the Son of God (Heb. 1:5)
Adam died--Jesus died.
All die in Adam (1 Cor. 15:22)--Jesus being of Adam and made flesh also DIED.
But Jesus has been resurrected to immortality--the "last Adam."
But notice carefully that Jesus is called the "LAST" Adam,
but He is called the "SECOND" man, not the "last" man,
as there will follow many more brothers and sisters (2Cor. 6 : 18, etc.)
God be with you,
Ray
My notes after this email edification came were as follows.
1 Cor 15 : 45. The first man Adam was made a living soul: the last Adam was a quickening Spirit.
The first man was (formed 1 Tim 2 : 13 For Adam was first formed...) from out of the earth, made of dust: the second Man is the Lord.
It is not the spiritual life that came first, but the physical and THEN THE SPIRITUAL.
I sincerely hope this adds and is helpful to the insights that Brett has asked you to share with us Joe.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Heidi:
Hi Joe,
Of the same lump of clay......(wow - I have never seen it before now)
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Does the lump of clay represent mankind or each individual?
I have read the response to this posting and I am fascinated by the replies. I hope someone can answer my question.
Love
Heidi
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi again Joe
When I opened up this thread, it opened on my response I posted on December 4th last year. By contrast I can see how much my views have changed.
Abigale appeased King David. Won his favor and then she went back to her husband and slayed his HEART by telling him what she had done. We know that David killed Bathsheba's husband. We know that the son born to Bathsheba and David, died. We know in BT that although David was a man after God's heart, that he died asking his son to kill his enemies and to make it bloody. Hardly the thing that would please God who teaches us to LOVE our enemies and pray for them!
Looking at this again, I see I was deceived. Here is what I have found. We know that the OT is written for our admonition. I was wrong to think Abigale did the right thing. Why. Because we are told by God in 1 John 2 : 16 For ALL that is in the world - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, is not of The Father but is of the world.
We know that Ray has identified this Scripture with Eve who was carnal and took the forbidden fruit precisely because she lusted in her flesh eyes and she esteemed having Godly knowledge above the value of being obedient and faithful to God Himself. Hence her consequences!
What I did not know was that three women in the OT written for my admonition, were not so innocent either as at first assumed. Abigale complained to David about her husband. She slandered his name! Look at this and cringe at the words she spoke to David after kneeling at his feet! : 1 Samuel 28 : 25 Let not my lord, I pray you, regard this FOOLISH AND WICKED FELLOW NABAL, (she is speaking about HER HUSBAND!) for as his name is, so is he - Nabal, is his name, and folly is with him. But I YOUR HANDMAID....etc etc...
Guess what happened to Nabal after Abigale told him what she had done. HIS HEART DIED WITHIN HIM! vs 37 and he became as a stone. Then ten days later God smote Nabal that he died. Poor chap and not because God smote him but because through Nabal's WIFE his HEART DIED WITHIN HIM. I wonder how many men can relate to Nobal? I wonder how many women can even SEE that it is WRONG to go and kneel before another man and slander your husband in order to save your own skin, win approval or get a carnal promotion to a more appealing life style! Abigale became David's wife AND SHE ran to the opportunity without any mention of grief for her deceased husband! Shame on her!
What about Bath-Sheba. She falls pregnant. Deceives her husband who is later murdered by her lover and is that all right? Why would that be all right? Oh because her lover was higher up in rank and status. Like pride of life higher up as a King, King David no less! NO. That is the deception. Of course it was not alright. How do I know? because God sent Nathan His servant to point out David's error to him and the Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David.
What about Ruth? She found favor with Boaz. She submitted to him and was blessed. She was a widow not because Boaz killed her husband or because she betrayed her husbands folly to another man. Ruth was kind and devoted and she obeyed and honoured her Mother in law and served her and had a spirit of submission. It is Ruth who's name we see in the first chapter of Mathew who describes the lineage of Jesus Christ! NOT Bath-Sheba or Abigale!
I know that the Bride of Christ will have no evil thoughts about her husband on earth or in Heaven and All Heaven and Earth shall be to His Glory with a trusting compliantly gentle and loving wife next to Him.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Sorry. That might have been too long winded for some :D
hillsbororiver:
Hi Brett, Arc & Heidi,
Acturus quoted 1Cor 15:45 and I think more verses from that Chapter address both of your questions (Brett, Heidi).
1 Corinthians 15
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
--- Quote from: Heidi on April 27, 2008, 07:38:57 AM ---
Does the lump of clay represent mankind or each individual?
--- End quote ---
Hi Heidi,
The short answer is both, every person (in God's time and choosing) will experience this transformation from the natural to the spiritual, corruption to incorruption, mortal to immortal, imperfection to perfection.
--- Quote from: Brett on April 27, 2008, 01:15:18 AM ---Hi Joe,
Are you saying like First Adam is in man's flesh and Second Adam is still same man's flesh before he die? But not spirutal body as resurrection (second Adam)?
Am I right understand you or am I off?
Brett
--- End quote ---
Hi Brett,
Not quite, we are all Adam the earthly vessel being transformed into a spiritual creature, although we are spiritually conceived in this flesh we will not be true spiritual creatures until the resurrection.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnestG728 (down payment) of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
G728
ἀῤῥαβών
arrhabōn
ar-hrab-ohn'
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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