Dave,
Topic: When was Adam created.
Response from Indiana Bob re: humans being perfect in intelligence and physical abilities.
Hi
Reply #12
Quote from Indianabob:
In fact since our ancestors were closer to the original, perfectly created duo, Adam and Eve, they had a much better chance of producing intelligent children than we do today.
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>I'm not so sure that that is true although tradition states that they were perfect. Ray teaches that the scriptures suggest >that they were far from perfection , hence their ability to sin.
>With regards to Adam's creation we know not how long the sixth day actually lasted. Perhaps mankind was already
>being formed before Adam (I'm not talking apes here) during that sixth day,and that Adam was a point along the way to
>mankind being formed into the image of God.
>Just pondering
>Dave
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Friend Dave: Two points if I may explain.
1. I was speaking of physical perfection, good bodies and good minds. Adams descendants were in much better shape and closer to Adam's created physical perfection than any of us are today, scientist included. God's first created humans had perfect brains, had language, had the perfect teacher in whatever skills were programmed into their minds.
Would you agree?
Therefore they could have devised ways to migrate to other continents or find North or invent ships.
All of these attributes are separate from righteousness or spiritual perfection.
2. I don't believe at this time, that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect. The absence of sin just means that their conscious or volitional mind was un-polluted with lust, greed etc. Perfection or completeness on the other hand has to be attained over time or given by God through God's miraculous intervention.
2a. Regarding Eve's sin, (reply to Arcturus #15) both Eve and Adam were in the midst of paradise and the option to choose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was before them both. Each of them could decide whether to follow God's directives or to decide for themselves whether to choose to do "what seemed good to them". People do the same today, but we need to keep in mind that God set them up to yield to temptation. God made them weak and unable to resist what they lusted for, so that God could teach them about evil. (moderators please check my understanding here) Also please recall that Adam was first, Adam was instructed directly by God. Eve was created second and perhaps was dependent upon Adam for her instruction. So, Adam was supposed to watch over Eve and should have cautioned her since Adam knew better and just stood by and let Eve continue to lust and then to sin.
God puts the blame where it belongs fellows, on the leadership: Although, we do now understand that both of them were created with those weaknesses. It was after all God's intent from the beginning that they and we learn about evil by living with it.
see James 1:13-15 Lusting leads to sin, but it is a process and as you said we don't know how long Eve or Adam for that matter had been lusting, had wanted to make their own rules (eat of that tree) It may have all happened in one year. They were apparently pretty busy discovering things about themselves, the animals and their beautiful environment, but it wouldn't have been long until their curiosity was piqued and they wanted to try something new.
Regarding Ezek 18:20 the soul that sins and your comment below:
>"However it seems that they only could know good and evil after they had partaken of the very forbidden thing that
>would give them that knowledge (as well as kill them) which seems a bit of a paradox in itself."
>cheers
Bob writes: It is good to note that God is sovereign and that God planned all of our tests and experiences from the beginning. God placed the 'tree of good and evil" directly in the center where they could not miss it.
Therefore, God made us to need to learn about and deal with evil. Life for Adam and Eve was only good at first, because they didn't know the difference. Every experience gave them joy. there was no pain or regret.
If God's son needed to learn by what he suffered, so must all of mankind. How else shall we be LIKE Jesus?
End of Bob's remarks.
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>Hi Arcturus reply #15
Quote
>Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… BEFORE she actually ate of the
>forbidden fruit.
>You have answered a question that I have also been asking myself 'did Adam and Eve sin before they ate from the
>tree of knowledge of good and evil ' ?
>However for all we know Eve might have been lusting after that tree perhaps for years before she partook of it. if so,
>why didn't she die at that point ?
>I think it says in Ezekiel 'the soul that sins shall surely die' , the wages of sin etc.
>However it seems that they only could know good and evil after they had partaken of the very forbidden thing that
>would give them that knowledge (as well as kill them) which seems a bit of a paradox in itself.
>cheers
>Dave