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Author Topic: Christmas or Xmas  (Read 4111 times)

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  • Guest
Christmas or Xmas
« on: December 25, 2007, 08:36:11 AM »

Hi, all.

I was just wondering if Ray has a study paper on Christmas? I stopped celibrating Christmas quite a few years ago as I really saw nothing concerning it having to do with Christ at all.

I never realler even questioned it even after coming to Rays site. It had already seemed to be a dead issue with me. That is until I had a little baby boy that is now 3 and loves Christmas (of course :).

I just wanted to get anyones thoughts on where they stand on it and how they have handled the situation with any children you might have.

Any reply is much appreciated.

In His name, Dave


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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2007, 09:20:23 AM »

We celebrate it as a holiday.  We're off work. The kids get some gifts, we spend allot of time with family, and we get fatter. :)

If I had my choice, I would like the day off, but could leave the rest of it.  I just smile and celebrate with everyone else though that's not were my heart is.


Chris R

  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2007, 10:30:14 AM »

It is a nice holiday, and it most cases folks seem to be a tad bit nicer for the seasons sake.

I suppose we can take all the kindness life can give us, there is plenty of contrast to go around

Merry Christmas

Chris R


  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2007, 10:47:50 AM »

I agree with Graig. My heart is not into Christmas at all anymore. In fact for me it is almost as if a heavy weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I see little if anything that glorifies God during this time. What I do see is stressed out people spending beyond their means on more and more "stuff", often going deeper in debt. Who has the most beautiful lights on the block, the prettiest tree etc. And of course there is always the touching story of some unselfish persons giving that makes the local news, touches our heart and gives the illusion that we are a caring society. Yup, after spending 2,000 dollars on a new Prada purse many people will drop 5 dollars in the salvation army cup. Really Christlike :P . Don't forget about putting our best suit and fur coat on and heading off to a majestic cathedral to praise God. But we're in a hurry because we have to spend time with sick Auntie Gertrude, and be sure to be nice to her kids, its Christmas. Of course the rest of the year she is ignored like the plague ;)...Speaking of children what do they learn? Well they are told lies about a Santa Claus and taught from an early age how to covet of course! Is it any surprise that kids often have trouble believing in God after all this. And last but not least could someone please tell me how you would feel if it was your birthday and no one had a gift for you. Instead they all exchanged gifts with each other. I mean really, whats that all about. I think for those of us who are followers of Jesus have the same spirit in us whether its Dec. 25th or July 25th. We should keep fast a Christlike character throughout the year and not just wear that face for one day. Babylon looks so silly when you have left her and are looking back in.

God bless.




  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2007, 11:52:23 AM »

Hi Truth101,

Here all I could find that Ray says about this. ---------------------------


Most religious festivals of the world have something to do with sex or fertility. The Christian Holy Days are no different. They ARE in fact, little more than these same pagan festivals with Christian orientations. Christmas, for example IS the pagan Roman Saturnalia or sometimes called "The Festival of Lights." But even the Saturnalia predates the founding of Rome by centuries. This same festival can be traced to Babylon, and yes, you guessed it, to Egypt and their winter celebration of lights.

December 25 is near the winter solstice. It is the time when the sun after having been at the lowest point in the heavens, beings to rise over the world with renewed vigor and power. It was the time of heathen festivities in worship of the sun. The vernal equinox is the point where the sun crosses the celestial equator, about March 20, making day and night of equal length everywhere. This was the time of pagan spring festivals.

The day of December 25 acquired a new significance under the rule of Emperor Aurelian. He proclaimed this day as "Dies Natalis Invicti Solis," or the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. This was because of a strange Eastern religion, Mithraism, whose god Mithras was identified with the Unconquered Sun. During the Saturnalia work of every kind ceased. Schools were closed.

The Roman Saturnalia was boisterous. But whatever the behavior of some Romans, others were simply merry. They ate big dinners, visited their friends, etc. The halls of the Romans were decked with boughs of laurel and of green trees, with lighted candles and with lamps--for the hovering spirits of darkness were afraid of light. Bonfires were lit in high places to strengthen the reviving sun in his course. Candles and green wreaths were given as presents, the streets were crowded with noisy processions of men and women carrying lighted tapers, and public places were decked with flowers and shrubs. The practice of giving and receiving presents was almost as common then as it is now at Christmas. Our present day "Christmas spirit" is actually the spirit of this old Roman festival.,2759.0.html -------

Dear Shannon:

Of course everyone says they want the truth and they want it straight until you give it to them. Hopefully, you are different.

Yes, Christimas and all of its accoutrements and paraphania (evergreen tree, orbs, eggs, mistletoe, presents, winter solstice, yule logs, fires, drinking, etc.) are also pagan. But then again virtually all who shun this day with great horror think nothing of having a traditional wedding with the same pagan acoutrements (vale, something old, something new; something borrowed, something blue, rings, rice, honeymoon, bells, wedding cake, etc.).  Then of course at least some of them have their boys in the Boy Scouts with all their pagan accoutrements (left-handed locking little finger hand shake, spirit of scouting, the insignia--fleur-de-lis, etc).  Did I mention that it was the pagans who whore shoes before the Christians.  The Scriptures tell us that we should "Be ye not righteous over much" (Ecc. 7:16). And Paul said: "To the pure all things are pure."  I just don't get all bent out of shape over these things. I personally do not get caught up in the "spirit" of any of these things, but neither do I condemn those who do. These are things that each of us must decide in their own way. However, for what it is worth: Dumping Christmas for Hannukah seems to me like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

God be with you,
Ray,2855.0.html ------

Dear mommateeh:
Understand that if there never was a Roman Saturnalia pagan fest in mid-winter, there would not be a Christmas, or an X-mas, or a day of exchanging gifts and kissing under the mistletoe, drinking eggnog and booze, putting eggs [orbs] on evergreen trees, etc., etc., etc. What people do with such days (Easter of also pagan) is up to them. I do not condemn anyone for keeping Christmas or Easter.  Of course your friends and relatives will hate yhou if you don't partake of these customs.  It's hard to obey Jesus until you begin to see the value in doing so.  I know that people have a good time and enjoy the Christmas Season. They also enjoyed it when it was called the Saturnalie in pagan Rome.  But on the other hand, your are right, people get all spiritually bent out of shape over Christmas, and become much much holier-than-thou because they have a little knowledge. I get Christmas presents. I accept them. I thank the givers, and enjoy the gifts. Didn't Jesus "eat and socialize with SINNERS in their own homes?" Try not to destroy your family over this Season of the year.  Life is not always easy.

God be with you,


  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2007, 01:48:03 PM »

Hello Dave,

We (dh and I) used to celebrate Christmas growing up as children, but after learning the pagan origins of it and knowing what Jer. 10 and Lev. 12 have to say about not even inquiring about how they do their customs (b/c they were all centered around the sacrificing of INNOCENT INFANTS to their gods; in which I happen to know that that sacrificing is still done by many around the world today; therefore, we cannot in good conscience celebrate on this High Holy day of satanist', and the acts that they perform as of last night and today; as well as many more times per  year in especially this country.) 

For the above reason, we quit xmas about a dozen yrs ago; but, we had begun celebrating Hanukkah (when we had been attending a Messianic church), but after HE dragged us away from the churches altogether, we simply continued Hanukkah since that was all that our little boy had ever known (He has to date never celebrated any of the American Holiday's the occultists STILL DO TODAY), so this was a natural transition for us to keep as a tradition, especially for our son.  Our son knows exactly what happens to innicent children in our world on all of these holidays; so he can feel good about it not happening on these 8 nights.

Yeshua had celebrated this TRADITION (this was not a High Holy Feast or Festival Day as God had REQUIRED in the O.T, so since this was a TRADITION ONLY back then,  and  it was good enough for Christ to celebrate, then we make a huge effort to bring in friends whom have never celebrated Hanukkah and we do all kinds of celebrating in order to show WHO IS THE LIGHT OF LIGHTS, THE MIRICLE OF LIGHTS, THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.  Each night we light candles, we read from the word, sing praises and worship,  wenexchange gifts, eat celebratory foods, ...ALL IN REMEBRANCE OF CHRIST.  The children as well as the adults absolutely love what they are a part of for the first time.  (Like this last hanukkah, we got two families their very first and  beautiful Hanukkiah/menorra (the canldeabra) and they wentback to their home and kept lighting their hanukkiah for the duration of the nights in their home, even though their xmas trees were up...)  One night out of the 8 we will even have a cultural experience by cooking the Hebrew foods that Yeshua himself would have eaten (Matzo ball chicken soup, lentils, potato latkes, deep fried jelly rolls, pomegranates, wine, and especially fried foods that  represent the miracle that came from the lack of oil in the temple that happened in the temple so many thousands of yrs ago.  Believe me, there is a spiritual lesson in all that we do, and those joining us are AMAZED; and some have even taken it up for themselves and have dropped christmas.  We are able to share so much truths to them at this time as well.  They love it!   Plus, my child does not feel left out for not doing xmas and all of the other holidays that the other kids do each year; this is what he looks forward to throughout the year. Plus it is a fun way to teach him about the OT temple vs  the NT temple that resides within each of us...he actually gets it, whereas, to many adults it is meat!  Of course we do not fellowship during this celebration w/ those who do not receive Yeshua as the light and saviour of the world (as most Jewish people don't believe in HIM)   

You can add your own customs to it (like we make driedel cut out cookies  and we tell the story of how we got the dreidel game, then we play it with the kids; (The 4 Hebrew letters that are on the driedel are the  letters N (nun), G (gimmel), H (heh), and SH (shin) which stand for "Nes Gadol Hayah Sham": " A GREAT MIRACLE HAPPENED HERE".  The kids learn about who the light of the world is! 

Now, I must confess the we tended to have over done it with the presents to our son this year, so we will have to tone that down; but, we are trying to give him some great memories and yet to do the right things with it.  We do other things too, but for now, I'll hush.   I hope that helps you! Let me know if it does.


  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2007, 04:14:51 PM »

Hello Dave

I agree that this earthly celebration for me too is not where my heart is either and I watch the world and those still of the world get hopelessly caught up in the pageantry of baubles and bangles and all that glitters.

It is fun to watch but not food. It is happy to laugh but is not abiding joy of His Spirit that satisfies the instant gratification craving world. Neither does happy laughter fill the void carved out by false teachings and blasphemies.

We tell our son that this is not how to celebrate the Spirit of Christ and that actually Christmas is everyday.  Giving should not be only once a year as is falsely taught! Well its a start! He is only 11 years old! :D

I kept my shop open today, 25th Dec. When I was there, which was not for the duration of the entire day, a middle aged woman customer sympathetically commented "Shame, you are WORKING on Christmas!" There seemed to be no malice or accusation in her comment or demeanor so I responded with a smile that for me Christmas is everyday which instantly lifted the worried look off her face! :D ;D Poor women! For me she is one who is among many who are caught in the charade of superstitious, carnal Babylonian false teachings. Maybe just seeing someone who is not guilty of working on Christmas brought her some relief that I was not being burnt at the stake for heresy or for having come out of Babylon. Now to keep going!....For me, that is the real journey.... :)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2007, 04:18:52 PM by Arcturus »


  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2007, 04:43:49 PM »

Yes, everyday should be day of giving and sharing and loving.  That is pretty neat that you had stayed open today, poor little lady; I would think that she has celebratde xmas for so long that she had only your best interest at heart :D.  There are only a few convenient stores and Movie Theatres open around here today; and the theatres are packed!  We shall see if any laundromats are opened; our dryer just died. :-\ 


  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2007, 06:39:23 PM »

Hi all, Thanks for all your replies. I feel much the same as most of you.

I have already settled it in my heart that "Christmas" is not what I or my family are celebrating. We have "Xmas" (just a day off with perks :)). As my son grows and learns I will continue to teach him of the truth of Gods word but also the truth of this holiday.

I would like to share something with you all that almost made me cry ("almost" because I forced myself not to lol).

My wife asked my son  (just 3 years old) if he wanted lots of presents this year and his words were "No I just want 2". My wife asked him "well what are you going to do with all the rest?" he replied "You can give them to other kids."

If you knew my little guy you would understand as I do that his heart is made of gold. He is very sensitive to everything. He is always asking me if im ok and if im happy as well as his mother.

When I heard him say this I knew he said it because he knows that there are other kids who dont have anything as I have taught him this since he could understand me.

As he gets older I will be teaching him of this season and the truth of it as well and I am sure he will have no problem with the change. While everyone else is celebrating christmas we will be "at the movies" or something :).

Again, thanks all for sharing. It has helped me out more than you can know.

In His name, blessing to all.



  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2007, 07:10:03 PM »

Like the most of you I had to endure and listen to the nauseating  diatribe that the church spews out at Christmas time while they imbibe in the carnal.  Even though we at BT may not be into "Christmas" ....I started to think about the scriptures say about the events .

(Luk 2:14 CLV) 
Glory to God among the Highest! And on earth peace, Among men, delight!"

I have looked at various transltions and this was the closest to the original Greek  I really like it because it sound like a 'Ta dah' moment for God....Look world is My begotten Son.
When I read Mary's response to the angel I can see that this magnificat will be sung by each of the elect......since God 's spirit lives in the elect and during their life they were conformed to the image of Christ. The elect too are born again of spirit.

(Luk 1:46 REV)  And Mary said-My soul doth magnify the Lord,    (It is all His doing)
(Luk 1:47 REV)  And my spirit hath exulted upon God my saviour; (He is the One who dragged us out)

(Luk 1:48 REV)  Because he hath looked upon the humbling of his handmaid; for lo! fromthe present time, all the generations, will pronounce me happy.
(the few will serve the many and they will be be amazed that God has chosen such a motley group of people to exalt)

(Luk 1:49 REV)  Because he that is mighty hath done for me great things, and, holy, is his name
(God'dsplan is so much bigger that Babylonean church ever imagined)
(Luk 1:50 REV)  And his mercy is unto generations and generations, to them who revere him;
They too will be brought back to the shepards fold

(Luk 1:51 REV)  He hath wrought strength with his arm, He hath scattered men arrogant in the intention of their heart;
Ecc 1:14  I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

(Luk 1:52 REV)  He hath deposed potentates from thrones, and uplifted the lowly;
Isa 57:15 For thus says Yahweh, high and lifted up, who tabernacles the future, and holy is His name:"In the high and holy place am I tabernacling, and with the crushed and lowly spirit, to preserve alive the spirit of the lowly, and to preserve alive the heart of the crushed."

(Luk 1:53 REV)  The hungry, hath he filled with good things, and, the wealthy, hath he sent empty away;   
Psa 107:9 For He satisfied the thirst of the unappeased soul, And the famished soul He filled with good."

(Luk 1:54 REV)  He hath laid hold of Israel his servant, to be mindful of mercies:
Isa 49:3 And said to me My Servant, thou art,-Israel, in whom I will get myself glory

(Luk 1:55 REV)  According as he spake unto our fathers,-To Abraham, and to his seed,-Unto times age-abiding.
Psa 112:2 Mighty in the earth, shall be his seed, The generation of the upright, shall be blessed;
Gen 12:1 And Yahweh said unto Abram: Come thou on thy way, Out of thy land and out of the place of thy birth and out of the house of thy father,-Unto the land that I will show thee;

Now look at who God brought to investigate the shows ua that Daniel loyalty to God left his mark and his belief was passed down to that generations seers in the East.  They believed and searched it out

(Mat 2:1 KJVR)  Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
(Mat 2:2 KJVR)  Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him
Pro 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
Dan 12:3  And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.

And isn't it  interesting that the only ones actually directly told about the coming of the Messaiah (besides Mary and Joesph) were the lowest in that is obvious that no one listened to them when they told the world at that time also. No one will listen to us here on earth right now either 

(Luk 2:8 KJVR)  And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
(Luk 2:9 KJVR)  And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
(Luk 2:10 KJVR)  And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
(Luk 2:11 KJVR)  For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
(Luk 2:12 KJVR)  And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

(Luk 2:13 KJVR)  And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
(Luk 2:14 KJVR)  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
(Luk 2:15 KJVR)  And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

(Luk 2:16 KJVR)  And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
(Luk 2:17 KJVR)  And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
(Luk 2:18 KJVR)  And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
(Luk 2:19 KJVR)  But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
(Luk 2:20 KJVR)  And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

The overcomers in the first ressuretion will  be priests (shepards) and kings  and they will

G4165 rule  ποιμαίνω  poimainō  poy-mah'ee-no  From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
G936  reignβασιλεύω   basileuōbas-il-yoo'-o  From G935; to rule (literally or figuratively): - king, reign.

(Mat 1:1 KJVR)  The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
(Mat 1:17 KJVR)  So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

This talks about 42 generations but are there 42? Ray tell us that we have to pay attention to the words lets count them

 1Abraham 2Isaac 3Jacob  4Judah and his brethren;he begat 5Phares  6Esrom begat 7Aram;
 begat 8Aminadab;  begat 9Naasson;  begat 10Salmon begat 11Boaz of Rahab; begat 12Obed of Ruth begat 13Jesse begat 14 David the king;
begat 15Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah begat 16Roboam; begat 17Abia; begat 18Asa; begat 19Jehoshaphat begat 20Joram; begat 21Ozias begat 22Joatham begat 23 Achaz;  begat 24Ezekias; begat 25Manasses;  begat 26 Amon begat 27 Josiah begat 28Jechoniah and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
Mat 1:12  And after they were brought to Babylon,
Jechoniah begat 29Shealtiel;  begat 30Zorobabel begat 31Abiud begat 32Eliakim; begat 33Azor begat 34Sadoc; begat 35Achim; begat 36Eliud begat 37Eleazar begat 38Matthan begat 39Jacob;  begat 40Joseph the husband of Mary,  supposed father of 41 Jesus

Mathew says there were 42 generations. When Jesus came into the world it signified a new epoch in the plan of God

"By the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established."
 "No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The Sons of God are all numbered! . "He telleth the number of the stars; He calleth them all by their names." (Psalm 147:4)  the stars that God is interested in enough to name and number are the stars referred to in Daniel 12:3 and Rev. 1:20. The Sons of God that shall turn many to righteousness, and shall be found in His right hand at His coming!

The 42nd generation are the overcomer of Rev 21:7. It is that company of people spoken of by Isa. 8:18 and Heb. 2:13 as "the children God hath given me." It is those referred to in Rom. 8:29 as being conformed to His image. This is the generation of Jesus Christ, an elect company, an "ecclesia"called out of all ages and all generations, those who are the true seed of Abraham, who are "joint heirs with Christ," who rule and reign with Him

The 53rd chapter of Isaiah is a precious messianic prophecy referring to our lovely Savior some 700 years before His birth.

"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for thetransgression of my people was He stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief, when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, HE SHALL SEE HIS SEED, HE SHALL PROLONG HIS DAYS, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand." accounted to the Lord "for a generation.

Psalm 22:30-31. This is a messianic Psalm, and it speaks of Christ .
''A seed shall serve Him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for A GENERATION. They shall come, and shall DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto a people that shall be born, that He hath done this."

The Apostle Peter saw it, and writes in I Peter 2:9 . . . "BUT YE ARE A CHOSEN GENERATION, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light "whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the
firstborn among MANY BRETHREN." (Rom. 8:29)

Isa. 43:5-7 .
"Fear not, for I am with thee: I will bring THY SEED from the east, and gather thee from the west; I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back; BRING MY SONS FROM FAR, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even everyone that is called BY MY NAME: for I HAVE CREATED HIMFOR MY GLORY' I have formed him, yea, I have made him."

Psalm 22:22 "I will declare thy name UNTO MY BRETHREN: IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION will I praise thee."

New Testament shows  the Holy Ghost quoting from these scriptures in Hebrews 2:12, showing them to be the words of our Lord propheticallyspoken in the Psalms: "Saying, I will declare thy name UNTO MY BRETHREN, in the MIDST OF THE CHURCH will I sing praise unto thee."

Romans 8:29  states that Jesus is the "Firstborn among many brethren. Those "brethren" are also known as "Sons of God," "the elect," "the overcomers," "the manchild,"
HE THAT OVERCOMETH shall inherit all things; and I will be HIS GOD, and HE SHALL BE MY SON."

So should we ignore the celebration of Christmas......I think not .............we should be shouting

(Luk 2:14 CLV)  Glory to God among the Highest! And on earth peace, Among men, delight



  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2007, 08:16:23 PM »

Dave, what a sweet child you have! :D  I'm glad we could help you.  Blessings to you as well.

Very nice post Beloved; I like what you said and the analogy about the stars possibly being the elect; I had never thought of it that way...very neat!. 

I do enjoy very much about hearing about HIM during this season when they sing about HIM wherever I might be or when they talk about HIS birth and life and saviourhood, and I take the opportunity to expound on the good things about this season, especially with our son; but, I (personally) cannot shout during the actual xmas celebration (although I try to shout it out daily while talking about HIM to others when the Spirit gives me the opportunity to...)b/c of what I  know of what goes on in the occult world today... like what is happening on this very day/today/ (by satanists, which is whom this tradition was started by long ago and is still performed currently in the same ways  that was happening some 4 Millenia ago...the sacrificing of innocent children ( and it is being done in the name of xmas all around our world today, at this time of year (as well as on the other pagan holidays/'holydays'.)  Then is when I am led to simply pray for these precious little ones and for those who are harming them...I cannot shout with joy at this time of year for this reason.  (

The time of year when it is the Day of Atonement (which is when Yeshua was actually the late Fall) this is when I try to remember HIS BIRTH ...yes, I can shout for joy then and I do... :D

This will be all that I will post on the subject about b/c I do not want to sound as if I am being argumentative here/// :-X
His blessings, brother!


  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2007, 09:48:39 PM »

Yes Susan

I agree ....the more correct time was in October.   I did a study using an obstetrical wheel and the scriptures and it works out that way. 
You are right on ....we need to shout for joy then and every day now.  ;D

I really try not to get dogmatic or upset with all of the Christmas stuff. I myself have eliminated almost everything from my house (I have two sweaters and some wrapping paper). I usually give gifts before and after the fact...always have.  Now I just accept the fact that the blind and deaf fools in the world do not know what they do. Neither did we when we were in that state.

At a chistmas event at work ...everyone was asked what their favorite christmas song was.. I told them 'Joy to the World' ....but added that the song was actually written for "Easter" as a celebration of His Ressurection not His birth.  I did get odd looks when I told them I do not do asked if I was a Jahovah Witness.  :D

Now we have to face the real hedonist holiday...New Years where the drunk get drunker.  ::)   I am so0000 glad that God has a Plan..




  • Guest
Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2007, 11:09:13 PM »

my brothers and sisters have you ever seen anything in the scriptures that Jesus wanted us to know that he did not draw us a picture in words.  He makes everything pretty clear.  If you are to understand what he is saying, it may be so clear that you cannot miss the meaning.  But if he did not mean for you to understand, you cannot see the forest through the  trees.   While reading the scriptures, did you ever see Jesus mention his Birthday?  If so, show me the scripture because I've missed it.   Why did he not mention his birthdday if it were to be so important to us?   He also said, "who is my mother?"  (Matthew 3:33) He knew who his father was.    Because he never had a birthday.  He has been with us from the foundations of the world.  That's why we don't celebrate Christmas.  Jesus has been with us from the beginning of time to this very day - he was the word in the Garden.  He was and will be with the Father from the beginning of time to the end.  He has no birthday. 


Dewey & Paula love all people that will let us                                     


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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2007, 11:30:53 PM »

Good points and amen Beloved and Dewey&Paula! :D


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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2007, 11:38:04 PM »

Dear Dewey and Paula

My first post said nothing about "birthday" you are right the only people in scriptures that celebrated their "birthdays" were unbelivers..kings like Herod.

My first post spoke of the spiritual aspects of the physical events.  I was trying to show the deeper meaning in the words surrounding the event in history. That is what I was celebrating ...not the birth of Christ.

Rom 15:4  For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.



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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2007, 03:33:35 AM »

"…But they are altogether stupid and foolish in their discipline of delusion – their Idol is Wood!" ( Jeremiah 10: 8 ) …the doctrine of their vanity is Wood.

We read in Jeremiah 10:1- 4:

"Hear you the word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel:"

"The Lord says, learn NOT the way of the heathen (nations), and be NOT dismayed (terrified, frightened, have no fear) at the signs of heaven (the queen of heaven who is worshiped by the so called nations) for the heathen are dismayed at them."

"For the customs of the people are futile (worthless, foolish, vain, a delusion): for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax."

"They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move (will not totter, or fall over) not."

This certainly is a description of cutting down a (Christmas) tree, decorating it, and  controlling the quality of the product, that it does not fall over and become damaged in the process.

What is further interesting is that Santa has eight Reindeer which are symbolic of the Pagan horned stag (deer) god, and the number eight ( 8 ) is the number for a new beginning, but when laid on its side - it is the occultist symbol for Infinity.

Also, December 25th was regarded as the date of birth, of the Iranian mystery god Mithra – "the Sun of Righteousness. . ." The ecclesiastical calendar still retains numerous remnants of pre-Christian festivals including Christmas that blend elements of both, "the feast of the Saturnalia and the birthday of the god, Mithra."

Santa Claus, who "knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake," can circumnavigate over the entire earth in one night, but is nothing more than the winter stag god. Although this is clearly an attempt to copy the true God of heaven who is omnipresent (everywhere at once), omniscient (knows all), and omnipotent (all powerful).

…let us eat, drink and exchange the gift (truth) for a lie.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 12:10:17 AM by JER »


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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 04:56:11 AM »

Arcturus wrote:
I responded with a smile that for me Christmas is everyday

I get my gift every day I come here!


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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 09:25:54 AM »

Howdy all,

"…But they are altogether stupid and foolish in their discipline of delusion – their Idol is Wood!" ( Jeremiah 10: 8 ) …the doctrine of their vanity is Wood."

I think the difference is, is to the world they kepp christmas as an idol while we are blessed with eyes to see it for what it is......WOOD and that is all.

As most of you have pointed out, it is an opportunity for us to share what we are blessed to see just as a person blessed with physical sight may describe what wood looks like to a physically blind person.

We understand the pagan roots and the babylonian darkness that the world is in and we are to be a light to them with the portion of light we have recieved of God. We were once as blind and our idol and vanity was of wood and such as well.

I find myself recieving spiritual sight but my focus is not yet full as yet. My only recourse is to share but not judge, speak but listen more and above all I will do this in the spirit of Christ without malice and hatred in my heart.

I want those around me to see the light that is in me and DESIRE TO KNOW WHERE IT COMES FROM. It is not of me. The only thing that could come from me is judgment and anger and insult which would stem from my own pride. My pride has no light in it for all around me to see. They would just see me as the same as them and desire nothing of me.

I guess what I'm saying is there is a balance and that balance is that with knowledge we must have understanding. It is in the understanding that we are merciful to the souls inquiring of our light. We are to be meek and humbled not loud and proud. Knowledge puffs up and thats all without understanding.

With this all said, I have a long way to get to this point. I just pray that God gives me more understanding that will compliment any knowledge that I have in order to be a vessel of honour.

May God give us all understanding and even more wisdom.

God Bless,



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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 04:15:59 PM »

Matt that is precious!

Dave I think I can see what you are saying. Truth is not some academic exercise it is a real Life experience!

I believe Paul knew this too as he prayed in Eph 3 : 19 That you may really come to know practically, through EXPERIENCE for yourselves, the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge without experience that you may be filled through all your being unto all the fullness of God, may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself!

Peace to you brothers

Arcturus :)


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Re: Christmas or Xmas
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2007, 02:46:58 AM »

"The eyes can only see; what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend."

This from the Spirit, as we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
By His Grace through the Faith of Christ Jesus,

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