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sonofone:
--- Quote from: Bobby Proctor on January 09, 2008, 07:59:03 PM ---Hi Sonofone,
I am asking to understand... because I believe Joe answered your question in reply #3.
Joe:
--- Quote ---What would they have needed faith for?
According to these verses they would not have needed or had faith since they were walking with the Lord face to face.
Perhaps you could clarify the question.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
--- End quote ---
Sonofone when you say:
--- Quote ---I do have a reason for asking beyond unreasonable speculation.
--- End quote ---
Could you tell us what this reason is? I think it would make it easier to understand and discuss with you.
Bobby
--- End quote ---
Thanks for your post Bobby.I really don't want to be the agent of confusion here. In short in my pondering the story of Adam & Eve I thought of something I never thought of before.That is the moment the serpent told Eve something different from what God said,she was brought to reason and ultimately decide between two opposing truths.
In light of the fact that before they ate from this tree they had no knowledge of good or evil the question naturally became how could she know that one choice could be bad or wrong or vice verca?Then one thought leads to another and the question concerning faith comes up,could they have possibly had faith if they could not reason or discern right from wrong,good from evil.
The answer to this question shed so much light on what actually happened here that I just wanted to see if the initial question was proper to begin with.Obviously they needed no faith to believe God existed,they did need faith to believe that Gods word was true however.
At least that's how I see it.I ask the question rather than posting what my thoughts are because I know this forum is not intended to be used to teach.So sorry for causing any unnecessary confusion.
Chris R:
Sonofone,
If i understand you post, you HAVE an answer for this inigma? But you want to see if others will come to your conclusion?
Save us all the trouble, lets hear it!
We both know God created the creature SUBJECT to Vanity, And so Satan fullfilled a purpose on that day.
Are you saying the same Faith that will be "Given" to us, will not be given to them?..And if not, how do WE qualify to receive this faith ?
Is there a written test?...is it because of our so many "good works", what is it that qualifys US to get this faith? When you were 3 years old, did you have great Faith?..how about when you were 10?...is it AGE that qualifys us?
Or perhaps we should beleive the Scriptures For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Chris R
rjsurfs:
Hi Sonofone,
I believe I understand what you are saying now, thank you for explaining that. I may not have the answer you are looking for. I believe however that the answer lies most simply in this:
Rom 8:20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation
I know that you said Eve had to decide "between two opposing truths", but remember Satan lied to her by telling Eve she would not die.
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:...
Eve actually did know that it was wrong to eat of the tree... she did also know that she would surely die, as she corrected the serpent in his lie... but the serpent convinced her to sin anyway.
Why?
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Did they have faith? It doesn't appear they truly did considering the outcome.
The next conference will be a great opportunity to ask Ray something along this line if you like. Personally, I have let go of many of the questions I once had around the early Genesis account because I realize God is not revealing these truths to me at this time. He may never and that is ok. I will share with you that at the last Nashville conference I asked Ray a question that had been bothering me regarding God's specific name "Elohim". Ray was very kind and gave me a wonderful answer... but it flew right over my head... I heard his words but didn't understand them entirely... and I realized that was ok... it is just not my time or it is just not necessary for me to know. I see many of these same type questions by many people around the accounts of the beginning. It may be best if this is bothering you to let it lay until the time, if it comes, that God is willing to give to you the understanding.
Bobby
sonofone:
--- Quote from: Chris R on January 10, 2008, 05:49:21 AM ---Sonofone,
If i understand you post, you HAVE an answer for this inigma? But you want to see if others will come to your conclusion?
Save us all the trouble, lets hear it!
We both know God created the creature SUBJECT to Vanity, And so Satan fullfilled a purpose on that day.
Are you saying the same Faith that will be "Given" to us, will not be given to them?..And if not, how do WE qualify to receive this faith ?
Is there a written test?...is it because of our so many "good works", what is it that qualifys US to get this faith? When you were 3 years old, did you have great Faith?..how about when you were 10?...is it AGE that qualifys us?
Or perhaps we should beleive the Scriptures For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Chris R
--- End quote ---
It's not quite that simple Craig.In my pondering I happened upon a conclusion that seemed entirely consistent with scripture for me or to me.But as I said,I thought it would be more appropriate to ask the question that discovered this trail so to speak,rather than bring my thoughts and ideas here.
I really am trying to respect the rules of the forum,and did not think I would pose any harm in just asking the question to see if I'm off.
If I have permission to share what has registered for me I am more than willing to share.
Craig:
I think you meant Chris ;D
Go ahead and post, unless it leads to confusion or debate there won't be a problem, if the worst happens we will lock the thread or delete the post.
Or PM it to a moderator first.
Craig
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