> General Discussions
Laws
hillsbororiver:
Hi again Sonophone,
I would say it is apparent they had no faith as they did not comply, their "work" by eating the fruit was sinful, can we work sinful deeds and claim our faith is alive and well?
Adam appears to have committed the ultimate work without faith (by eating the fruit) as sin and death passed to all mankind, at least this is how I see it.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
His Peace to you,
Joe
sonofone:
Was it even possible for them to have faith absent the ability to know good from evil? I do have a reason for asking beyond unreasonable speculation.As is obvious they did not require faith to believe that God existed.They did require faith in order to remain faithful though. So was it possible for them to have faith?
rjsurfs:
Hi Sonofone,
I am asking to understand... because I believe Joe answered your question in reply #3.
Joe:
--- Quote ---What would they have needed faith for?
According to these verses they would not have needed or had faith since they were walking with the Lord face to face.
Perhaps you could clarify the question.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
--- End quote ---
Sonofone when you say:
--- Quote ---I do have a reason for asking beyond unreasonable speculation.
--- End quote ---
Could you tell us what this reason is? I think it would make it easier to understand and discuss with you.
Bobby
pylady:
Hi Sonofone,
Interesting question you raise. Is faith only believing in what we cannot see, or does having faith include obedience?
Joes mention of Adam walking in the garden with the Lord brought to mind how Peter walked with Jesus during His ministry, being taught by Him just as Adam must have been taught by Him.
Peter thought his faith was strong, but Jesus told Peter he would deny Him three times. When the Lord told Adam that if he ate of the fruit he would die was He really telling Adam that he would eat of the fruit?
Would Adam have felt sure that He would obey, not eat the fruit, after all his appetite was well satisfied with all the other fruit available in the garden? He may have felt confident that he would obey. God had not yet brought the cause of his disobedience into Adam's life - Eve, and his love for her!
Peter, too, was confident of his faith. He hadn't yet seen the cause of his denial - the Roman soldiers and the Jewish mob that made him so fearful!
Remember, the scriptures tell us Adam was not deceived. He believed, he knew if he ate the fruit he would die. If faith without works is dead, then Adam 's faith became a dead faith, therefore he died. If our faith is alive, in God's sight, we are alive. If our faith is dead (fruitless) we are dead in God's sight.
You said "Was it even possiblefor them to have faith absent the ability to know good from evil?" Was just thinking they hadn't experience evil yet. But they must have understood that actions have consequences. They would have learned this just in the physical world, understood the law of cause and effect by watching the animals, and even in their own lives. Maybe even understood that certain actions had undesirable consequences - after all, Adam was a mature man, not a child.
Hi, Joe I always wondered whether God dealt with Adam directly, or face to face, as you said, or through angels. Is there a verse that says that? Thanks!
Anyway, these were just the thoughts rambling thru my mind when I read your post, Sonofone. Don't know if it makes any sense to you.
Your sister in Christ,
Cindy
rk12201960:
Hi Joe,
I agree, we'll have many things to learn. ;D
Hi Sonofone,
as Joe and Bobby said
Adam spoke to God, that being so how could they have faith if they seen Jehovah?
The action they took would be more along the lines of not obeying.
We now know that they were directed to do so by God and not because of a default in their being.
It wasn't a lack f faith but more of a journey to become like God.
Faith is a gift from God.
Gods speed.
Randy
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version