> General Discussions
something interesting
alucard:
orion77,bobbys43,and Harryfeat i think your all missing the point of what i'm trying to do.do you believe every scripture in the bible came from true scripture of god?harryfeat you asked:
In order for you to be saved does it matter what you believe concerning:
-tithing
-virginity of mary
-trinity
-free will
-eternal punishment
YES!! it does matter atleast for some such as if you believe the trinity your not really worshiping the true god are you?only a god the way you think of him.eternal punishment to think it's justice or are god would be so unforgiving is denying what scripture tries to tell you.and for the others well it depends on how far you take it.
EDIT:hillsbororivers put we all we'll be saved in the end and i was typing to much in a hurry to say that it matters to be saved in this world,to be in the first reserection,thanks for showing me my mistake.
--- Quote ---What makes a passage scriptural? Does it qualify if it is part of the dead sea scrolls? If it is part of the bible is it automatically scriptural [translation errors notwithstanding]? Who decided that Paul's writings should be included in a bible anyway? If you remove all of Paul's writings, does is significantly change the message of the new testament?
--- End quote ---
about paul that all depends on are faith and understanding that he was truely chosen by christ,and what makes a passage scriptural?well the orginal text is a big help.matthew 28:19 sounds purty inspiring to some people and becuase they believed it is IT HAS REALLY LEFT A BIG MARK ON CHRISTIANITY WITH MANY FALSE DOCTRINES.Ray even removes scripture from his mind after he finds out it's not original like everything after mark 16:8.also i left a post on immaculate conception you should read about another false doctrine.
alucard:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---We are all going to be eventually saved, that is not the issue. We are striving for the higher calling;
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Remember the Word contained in scripture was not intended for all to understand;
Mat 13:13 Therefore, speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
There is so much to learn, appreciate and understand in the books contained within our bibles, one of the things I have learned is to read it as God speaking to me directly, one on one, His Spirit growing in me, not looking for "signs and wonders" of outside worldly events.
Is our knowledge of this book so complete that we need to look elsewhere for meat? I agree that we can see the Lord's handwriting in things other than the bible, that nature itself is a parable, our interactions with others, believers and non-believers are edifying us if we view things spiritually. But to confuse our minds (spiritually) with the likes of Judas books is something we are admonished against. Do you think that the following verses apply only to the translators of the bible, or preachers in the pulpit?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
We all should be very careful of what we post, keeping in mind that there are only about 30 frequent posters (at any given time), hundreds that read and rarely post and thousands who visit here directly after just discovering Ray's articles, let us not confuse them with supposition and links to unscriptural writings.
Joe
--- End quote ---
alright i'll try to keep that in mind and be a little bit more carefull
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: alucard ---orion77,bobbys43,and Harryfeat i think your all missing the point of what i'm trying to do.do you believe every scripture in the bible came from true scripture of god?harryfeat you asked:
In order for you to be saved does it matter what you believe concerning:
-tithing
-virginity of mary
-trinity
-free will
-eternal punishment
YES!! it does matter atleast for some such as if you believe the trinity your not really worshiping the true god are you?only a god the way you think of him.eternal punishment to think it's justice or are god would be so unforgiving is denying what scripture tries to tell you.and for the others well it depends on how far you take it.
EDIT:hillsbororivers put we all we'll be saved in the end and i was typing to much in a hurry to say that it matters to be saved in this world,to be in the first reserection,thanks for showing me my mistake.
--- Quote ---What makes a passage scriptural? Does it qualify if it is part of the dead sea scrolls? If it is part of the bible is it automatically scriptural [translation errors notwithstanding]? Who decided that Paul's writings should be included in a bible anyway? If you remove all of Paul's writings, does is significantly change the message of the new testament?
--- End quote ---
about paul that all depends on are faith and understanding that he was truely chosen by christ,and what makes a passage scriptural?well the orginal text is a big help.matthew 28:19 sounds purty inspiring to some people and becuase they believed it is IT HAS REALLY LEFT A BIG MARK ON CHRISTIANITY WITH MANY FALSE DOCTRINES.Ray even removes scripture from his mind after he finds out it's not original like everything after mark 16:8.also i left a post on immaculate conception you should read about another false doctrine.
--- End quote ---
I think I got it right and understand your point about not everything in the bible being original to the first published text. Also, there are things attributed to authors that may not be written by them. I think if you carefully reread my original post here you will see that I "get it"
I simply took a narrow topic and broadened it to show the importance of looking at a bigger picture when looking at the bible as a source for inspiration. The questions are more to generate thought but if you have answers please help me out.
You say that a couple of references to John are not scriptural. You cite the internet as a source to support your claim. So what? How reliable are those sources quoted on the internet?
In answer to the question "what makes a passage scriptural you responded....well the orginal text is a big help. What indeed is the true scripture of God? Are you saying it has to be part of the dead sea scrolls to be scriptural. Is that the only criterion. How do you tell it is inspired?
Does it have to be in the bible to be scriptural?
Is there anything scripturally inspired by God that is not in the bible?
*******************************
As far as being saved goes. I believe that the docrtine of Christ transcends all other doctrines. We do not know the true nature of God. Though the scriptures do not support God as a trinity, God could be. God could be a duality, trinity, family, etc. The only thing that matters to me is our complete love of Him and mankind as ourselves.
It also really doesn't matter to me whether there is a hell or not once I get to the point of following Christ's doctrine of love and asking that the Father's will be done. Whatever the Father wills is my goal. That's why I say these doctrines and belief in a hell doesn't really matter. It's His will only that matters.
I hope that clarifies what I was trying to point out.
feat
alucard:
--- Quote ---I think I got it right and understand your point about not everything in the bible being original to the first published text. Also, there are things attributed to authors that may not be written by them. I think if you carefully reread my original post here you will see that I "get it"
I simply took a narrow topic and broadened it to show the importance of looking at a bigger picture when looking at the bible as a source for inspiration. The questions are more to generate thought but if you have answers please help me out.
You say that a couple of references to John are not scriptural. You cite the internet as a source to support your claim. So what? How reliable are those sources quoted on the internet?
In answer to the question "what makes a passage scriptural you responded....well the orginal text is a big help. What indeed is the true scripture of God? Are you saying it has to be part of the dead sea scrolls to be scriptural. Is that the only criterion. How do you tell it is inspired?
Does it have to be in the bible to be scriptural?
Is there anything scripturally inspired by God that is not in the bible?
*******************************
As far as being saved goes. I believe that the docrtine of Christ transcends all other doctrines. We do not know the true nature of God. Though the scriptures do not support God as a trinity, God could be. God could be a duality, trinity, family, etc. The only thing that matters to me is our complete love of Him and mankind as ourselves.
It also really doesn't matter to me whether there is a hell or not once I get to the point of following Christ's doctrine of love and asking that the Father's will be done. Whatever the Father wills is my goal. That's why I say these doctrines and belief in a hell doesn't really matter. It's His will only that matters.
I hope that clarifies what I was trying to point out.
--- End quote ---
you have a very interesting way of looking at things and i admire your devotion trying to see what's really important.what makes a passage scriptural i said it's a big help but does not prove it in the end we may just have to rely on spirit but we should at least know what passages we are to really challenge are selfs to decide if they are written by god.about information i get i check it out a lot and make sure it's reliable before i even mention it.remember we are to search for the truth and we just can't abandon things we don't like to hear.
Rev 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
orion77:
Alucard, I can understand your point. The so called doctrine of eternal torment in fire has not kept man from sinning. Also, the scriptures in Rev. that you quoted has not kept men from adding or taking away from the word of God.
I think it is important to realize that in each generation the majority of believers are the ones who have a carnal reasoning towards the word of God. A quick look at history attests to this. How many people have been killed in the name of religion and especially in the name of christianity? Millions, maybe billions and how many have kept quite their faith out of fear of retribution from the religious leaders and the many that simply follow along without searching for the truth.
This is something that has gone on for thousands of years and will continue as long as God wills. There is plenty to learn from this. It is something that runs much deeper than just mere words. But, then again, words are humans main way of communicating and is very important to study. I think Gods main way of communicating to us, is through the rebellious and stiffneckedness of the Israelites of old. These are shadows and types, and in which when we are honest to ourselves we see ourselves in them too. This is what makes it go way past words alone and into the realm of spiritual truths.
Just like in Gods plan the darkness proceeds the light. We all go through the night first and fall away. This is a process God has caused us all to go through in creating us in His image. It would be in vain for God to create us all perfect, how could we learn. What God has created in the physical, the universe, planets other galaxies and all that is comprised is amazing and hard for the human mind to comprehend. But, His greatest creation is what is being created now in the spiritual, which far exceeds the physical. And that physical or carnal, if you will cannot understand these spiritual truths.
I think that is why, its not so much about the knowledge we have, albeit important, but how we inwardly treat those outwardly.
God bless,
Gary
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