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something interesting
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Harryfeat ---
As far as being saved goes. I believe that the docrtine of Christ transcends all other doctrines. We do not know the true nature of God. Though the scriptures do not support God as a trinity, God could be. God could be a duality, trinity, family, etc. The only thing that matters to me is our complete love of Him and mankind as ourselves.
It also really doesn't matter to me whether there is a hell or not once I get to the point of following Christ's doctrine of love and asking that the Father's will be done. Whatever the Father wills is my goal. That's why I say these doctrines and belief in a hell doesn't really matter. It's His will only that matters.
I hope that clarifies what I was trying to point out.
feat
--- End quote ---
Hello feat, actually I found this to be a confusing train of thought;
What is your definition of the doctrine of Christ? Are you saying that love comes before knowledge and understanding? I think I might see where you are coming from if you said that it does not matter what "doctrine of man" you believe when the zeal of faith first comes into your heart. But to truly love Him or our brethren we need to grow into it, it does not just happen.
Many who believe that our Lord would do such a despicable thing as torment much of His creation in an eternal hellhole "worship" not out of love but fear, if what we believe is of no importance in regard to our spiritual growth then why is this written?
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
We are instructed to grow in grace and knowledge, to resist error;
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, asthey do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own steadfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.
It is only when we grow in the spirit that we can love in the spirit, speaking of love with a carnal mind is confusion, sure we can love family or friends with a carnal heart but love our enemies? An unseen God? Impossible. We have to be spiritually mature to bear the fruit of love, charity.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue;and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.26
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge1922 of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
G26
ἀγάπη
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.
G1108
γνῶσις
gnōsis
gno'-sis
From G1097; knowing (the act), that is, (by implication) knowledge: - knowledge, science.
The apostles walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years and were as carnal as anyone until after the Resurrection of our Lord, as you read the Acts and other books you see their knowledge increase, understanding increase and the fruits of the spirit became evident, but this was a progression not instantanious.
Ray writes a great paper on "love" below is the link;
http://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm
alucard:
hillsbororiver i can see why your a moderator you really have an eye for things.but just wondering what is your take on this topic?i'm sure you have your on opinion and with someone that seems to be very wise in scripture i'd like to see your take on this.
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---
--- Quote from: Harryfeat ---
As far as being saved goes. I believe that the docrtine of Christ transcends all other doctrines. We do not know the true nature of God. Though the scriptures do not support God as a trinity, God could be. God could be a duality, trinity, family, etc. The only thing that matters to me is our complete love of Him and mankind as ourselves.
It also really doesn't matter to me whether there is a hell or not once I get to the point of following Christ's doctrine of love and asking that the Father's will be done. Whatever the Father wills is my goal. That's why I say these doctrines and belief in a hell doesn't really matter. It's His will only that matters.
I hope that clarifies what I was trying to point out.
feat
--- End quote ---
Hello feat, actually I found this to be a confusing train of thought;
What is your definition of the doctrine of Christ? Are you saying that love comes before knowledge and understanding? I think I might see where you are coming from if you said that it does not matter what "doctrine of man" you believe when the zeal of faith first comes into your heart. But to truly love Him or our brethren we need to grow into it, it does not just happen.
Many who believe that our Lord would do such a despicable thing as torment much of His creation in an eternal hellhole "worship" not out of love but fear, if what we believe is of no importance in regard to our spiritual growth then why is this written?
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
We are instructed to grow in grace and knowledge, to resist error;
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, asthey do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own steadfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.
It is only when we grow in the spirit that we can love in the spirit, speaking of love with a carnal mind is confusion, sure we can love family or friends with a carnal heart but love our enemies? An unseen God? Impossible. We have to be spiritually mature to bear the fruit of love, charity.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue;and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.26
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge1922 of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
G26
ἀγάπη
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.
G1108
γνῶσις
gnōsis
gno'-sis
From G1097; knowing (the act), that is, (by implication) knowledge: - knowledge, science.
The apostles walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years and were as carnal as anyone until after the Resurrection of our Lord, as you read the Acts and other books you see their knowledge increase, understanding increase and the fruits of the spirit became evident, but this was a progression not instantanious.
Ray writes a great paper on "love" below is the link;
http://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm
--- End quote ---
Hello Joe,
Do you agree that the doctrine of Christ supersedes all others?
If yes, then I think we are saying the same thing. I said " once I get to the point of following the doctrine of Christ " and you say we need to grow into it. Granted I didn't say how hard the journey would be but I was making a point about what is ultimately most important to me.
Your point about the arduous process of coming to terms with love, agape is certainly one I agree with. It is an ultimate goal which I believe is doubtful that I or anyone is able to achieve during their lifetime..
Still confused? Pm me.
hillsbororiver:
Hello again feat,
I did not say I was "confused" I said your post had "a confusing train of thought" not a subtle difference. Your post claimed "we do not know the true nature of God" but yet you state your complete love of Him.
God's nature has been revealed, by His Son;
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jo 4:10 Herein, is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him.
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There are many, many more verses that attest to God's nature, as to doctrine not being important, I think the scripture that was provided previously addresses that opinion clearly.
Yes, I agree that the doctrine of Christ supercedes all because He is all things, but remember;
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make our abode with him.
feat, I think we agree on more than we disagree, the only reason I am being a stickler here is for the same reason I stated to alucard earlier in the thread, we as moderators and members have to keep in mind the folks who are guests to the forum who are visiting because of what they read on BibleTruths by Ray or Mike. When statements are posted that seem to contradict their articles it can breed confusion, I hope you understand.
Peace Brother,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: alucard ---hillsbororiver i can see why your a moderator you really have an eye for things.but just wondering what is your take on this topic?i'm sure you have your on opinion and with someone that seems to be very wise in scripture i'd like to see your take on this.
--- End quote ---
Hi alucard, thank you for the kind words, I am a student of His Word like most everyone else.
I wish I had a good answer for you, these scholarly statements by men with a bunch of letters behind their names leaves me cold, I have watched the History Channel's "experts" as well as A&E go on and on about "explaining what REALLY happened" and it used to frustrate me no end. Now that I realize they are thinking carnally and don't really know (spiritually) what they are doing, it no longer bothers me.
Leave it in God's hands, he will reveal to us what He will in His time, seek Him with a humble spirit and He will answer.
Truly, I wish I had a better answer in regard to your specific question but it would be supposition with no weight or meat.
Joe
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