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Struggling With Sin
Kat:
Hi Sorin,
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You have to consider where Paul is coming from in making this statement. The verses just before tell us what his phrase "ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin" means.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
And you can see what he means by "dead to sin" in these verses also.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
That is what I believe he is explaining here, that 'before' we received grace through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we "were servants to sin."
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
What Paul is saying in these chapters is sin had reigned, but now with Christ indwelling it "shall not have dominion over you" and you are "dead indeed unto sin."
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
We will not be totally free from sin while in the flesh, but we are no longer a slave to sin. That is the way I understand what Paul is saying, I hope this helps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Samson:
Hey Sorin,
This Scripture popped into my head this morning: James. 1:12-15," Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which God promised to those who continue loving him. When under trial, let no one say: I am being tried by God, For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed(literally-being baited on) by his desire. Then THE DESIRE WHEN IT HAS BECOME FERTILE, GIVES BIRTH TO SIN, IN TURN, SIN, WHEN IT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED, BRINGS FORTH DEATH." I thought that this Scripture indirectly tied into the discussion. Some of this Scripture seems to precede the desire to stop sinning, after we have struggled so long with sin and learning from experiencing these trials set before us for our disiplining. Ray mentioned somewhere in one of his E-mails about the difference between LIVING A LIFE OF SIN(THE PATTERN OF SIN) VERSES AN OCCASIONAL SIN WE ALL MAKE THE REST OF OUR LIVES.
Hope this might help, Samson.
Kat:
Hi Sorin,
I was reading the 2007 Nashville Conference 'Who And What Is Jesus? & Who Is His Father?' and I came across this section that I think will help in this discussion.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg35928.html#msg35928
Now, so you except this Christ, you say, ‘alright I believe.’ ‘Maybe I don’t believe as good as I could, but I believe.’ ‘I’m going that way, you’re the Man, Jesus.’
“There is no more condemnation for those in Jesus Christ.”
That’s where you are. Except there is one escape clause. Paul said, unless you are faking it, unless you are just a total fraud. But if you do believe in Jesus, if you do in your heart say yes, I do I really do. Then this is your lot in life.
Rom 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.”
None! There is no condemnation in you! None. ‘Well surely some of the sins.‘ None. ‘But I’m not as good as you are Ray.’ None, there is no condemnation in you.
This idea that God beats you to death with His wrath and anger and indignation until the day you die, is Satanic heresy. “…no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.” NONE!
Rom 8:4 “…who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‘Oh Ray, now you blew it, you see I still do walk after the flesh sometimes.’ But where do you want to walk? ‘Well I want to walk after the spirit.’ Well, you’re back in.
Rom 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
v. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
v. 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v. 5 “For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh;”
Now if you find yourself minding the things of the flesh, you need to pray to God and cry out to help you and save you from that situation. You say this is not me, God, I don’t want to go here. I don’t want to do this, but my flesh is pulling me and I war, I need help, I need reinforcements. And you cry out to God and that humbles you. Because you see that you can’t do it. If you could do it, then you would become self sufficient, and you wouldn’t need God. He will always Make you dependant on Him.
Jesus always prayed. Why? He’s the Son of God! What did He need to pray for? Because He knew, if the Father didn’t do it, then it wouldn’t be done. It’s as simple as that.
Rom 8:6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be Spiritually minded is life and peace:
v. 7 because the carnal is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:”
v.8 “and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
So those that are in the flesh, they can not please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
v. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
v. 11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall also quicken(or bring to life) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.
v. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
v. 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
This is the Word of God. He put us in these bodies that want to sin and follow after lustful, stupid, sensual, fun, fuzzy things. But if in your heart and mind you don’t want that anymore, not that you don’t want, but you don’t want to want it. And so you cry out to God and say, ‘I don’t want to want it.’ And then God is your Father, He’ll come to your rescue. Just like any Father would come to any child’s rescue, when he cries out to him.
Rom 8:26 “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought…”
Or as according to what must be, you know. What is absolutely what is God’s plan, that can not be deviated from. We don’t always know what that is. But God’s spirit helps us to pray, so we will pray in accordance with what needs to be God’s plan and God’s will/purpose fulfilled in us.
Rom 8:27 and He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
v. 28 And we know that all things work together for the good to them that love God, to them that are called according to His purpose.
In verse 28 it should read God works all things together.
Rom 8:30 “Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, the He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.”
Now we are coming back to the same thing from verse one.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?”
Well, is God for us? Well yea, He’s for those He’s calling according to His purpose and plan. But, I don’t know if everyone sitting in here is in that category. But I’ll tell you what, if you are not in that category, you’re probably not to concerned about it. That’s what I tell everybody.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Robin:
Hey Sorin,
My struggle with sin is the very thing that caused me to hunger and thirst for the truth. I've thanked God many times for all these things he has used to drag me to him. If I had been able to free myself I believe I would still be in the church listening to lies.
I stuggle many times with the questions you are asking. Right in the middle of that struggle God gave me this promise.
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Psalm 119 brings me comfort.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20119;&version=50;
lilitalienboi16:
You guys seem to be makeing this complicated, lol.
Sorin this is how i understand it.
We will never be SINLESS in this life, BUT WE CAN come to a point where SIN NO LONGER REIGNS over us. We can only achieve perfection through Christ when we are born again into the kingdom of God as Sons and daughters. For now however we are being spiritual concieved, begotton from on high through God's spirit which is a downpayment a promise from God that one day we shall be fully purchased and born of Him.
Paul was not sinless, but he did come to a point in his life where sin no longer reigned over him because of Christ Jesus.
I hope this helps.
God bless,
Alex
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