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God=Love
Dante:
Ok,....I am gonna throw something out there and see if it sticks.
Since most of the world's population from start to finish has never heard the Word of God, and for that matter never even heard of Jesus Christ, What are the chances that when Jesus states that the only way to the Father is through me. He means that the only way to God is through what Jesus Christ represents.
Now there is so much to God that we cannot even list it here on this page or on the whole internet for that matter.
BUT,...Jesus Christ's Commission was one of Love!
He did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
We are told that God is LOVE. (Please don't respond and state that God is justice etc also, I know that, but God's Justice and every other aspect of God CANNOT come into conflict with any other aspect of his being). ;D Thanks! ;)
If I remember correctly (And please correct me if I am wrong) but Ray states that the Lake of Fire is God, and in fact is a good thing and is in fact God's Loving Mercy for men.
I will TRY to be getting to a point here in the near future, I promise. ::)
In light of all this,...what if Salvation is through Jesus Christ (Who is the embodiment of love), really means Salvation through LOVE? I don't mean that floppy, sappy in-genuine love, but the TRUE unconditional love of God.
Are there others, of other faiths that have reached the level of true unconditional love that God will accept? And will God do so because it is genuine, in spite of the fact that they never heard of Christ??
I ask this because of this reason. At judgment standing before God, let us assume we have seven men.
One is a Loving American Indian who prayed to the Sky Chief out of ignorance, The other is a (Hell Loving) "Christian", the other a Satanic Murderer, the other is a Loving Christian, The other is a Loving Buddhist/Taoist, the next is a pretty nice guy of no particular faith.
The Hell loving Christian will need correction in the Lake of Fire (A good thing for him and for all of us).
The Satanic Murderer will be corrected also, but his acts are Horrid, so he may or may not need more correction (This of course is up to God's wisdom and not of our concern).
The Pretty nice guy, is still off the mark. He needs a bit of correction, but once in the Lake, he almost certainly will repent quit quickly.
The Loving Christian will rule with God and is in no need of correction.
Now we come to the fun, interesting part. (I mean fun as in it is fun to think of how God will make all things right. I do find it really, really fun by the way. I am not making that up.)
The Loving Buddhist/Taoist and Loving American Indian who prayed to the Sky chief out of pure ignorance stand before God. God says to them, I AM GOD. You worshiped incorrectly. I put it to you now that you both acknowledge me, as I AM THAT I AM.
They look at each other for an instance (One shaved head, the other long black hair.) (At this point I would be shaking in my boots) and look back at God and say, Woops God! Sorry about the mix up. We really thought we were doing the correct thing both in our own time and place. YET, we now see that you are the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD.
My Point is this. It matters not if they have to go into the Lake of Fire or not, Since it is A GOOD THING.
What matters and what I am trying to point out is that it may not take much time at all (Or maybe nothing but A small WORD from God) for most of the people who have TRUE love in their hearts to get right with God. Get the correct mindset in them and kill off the OLD MAN.
I do not mean to be offensive to anyone. I am part Iroquois myself, and I respect Buddhism and Taoism as a Philosophy!
I do not mean to make light of the Judgment seat of God BY ANY MEANS! So please don't assume this, as it would make me extremely sad!!
:'(
The query I send out has much more to do with duration of time than whether or not they will go to the lake at all.
We may be able to put it in a way such as this. Some may need JUST A TOE TOUCHING, while others may need a long duration in the Lake of God's Love.
I am sorry if anyone thinks this is a waste of time to think about. And if it is to you, then I apologize for the inconvenience. BUT these are my thoughts that I PONDER and I am a child of the living God and I would hope you would consider my thoughts to be, at the very least worth considering.
Thank you so much and God bless all of you.
With all my love. :D
Dante ;D
Beloved:
This is an interesting thought I can understand your concern but about these people but I think your premise may be oversimplified.. ?Which God?
With telecommunication and literacy I do not know how many today could not have heard the gospel (even if it was the ugly one about hell). If they heard that they proably rejected it because of thier own traditions and because God did not open their eyes. God is responsible for all.
I also think that all men even those in the past that never were exposed still have a major problem..... SELF...the one on the throne .......During ones lifetime there would be numerouse occasions for this to show itself....every baby is Self centered.
Look at these buddist right now some are resorting to brute physical albeit it 'may be' defensive but what about in their mental thoughts. Remember Jesus held us to a higher standard. Of most religions Buddism on the surface has some correct ideas but they are achieved by self. They are work based.
Jesus Christ came to earth as a sacrafice and example to show mankind that death to self is the way to life. We cannot do this on our own. Our flesh is a trap.
The elect are suppose to go through this fire wile they live now.....Ask yourself what kind of fire your are going through now....many are having difficult times...not always physical....I believe the LOF will be the perfect learning experience for each person....
Perhaps that is what the elect will do ......guide them through this experience so they ....learn righteousness. The elect will take off their linen and put on the wool and enter the physical realm when the people of the 2nd ressurection will dwell.
Like Paul who saw himself as the chief sinner....the elect will know the mercy of God because none of them were mighty renown rich etc....they were the bottom of the barrel in a way. Like Jesus they know the flesh and the struggles that need to be overcomed....
I do not look on the Lake of Fire as a bad thing but more as a rectifier....a do-over....a perfecter. It was God who decided on which team you played the first time...now he is bringing everyone back into the spiritual family after this extremely limiting flesh experience.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3002.0.html
There will be no I us or them there will only be the Father. All in All
Beloved
hillsbororiver:
This is a question that has been asked and meditated on for centuries, "does one really have to believe in Christ to be saved? How about all the sincere and good people of other faiths?" On it's surface these are very valid questions but I ask good compared to who, other men? Is that good enough for God our Father?
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
One thing we can take comfort in is that no matter what anyone believes all will eventually be saved but they will believe and worship Christ when that day comes, whether in this age or the next.
I agree with Beloved when she stated that the LOF is a time of correction and adjustment and not a finite version of an everlasting hellfire of pure torture, sure some will receive more chastisement than others but the LOF is not going to be a "one size fits all" experience.
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
John Chapter 6
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Dante:
I could not agree with you more Beloved as to God having planned the whole thing. I assure you I believe this fact.
But unless I am mistaken, Ray does state there Are, and Were, and Will be people who have never heard of God. And I believe this to be true also.
But under Buddhist/Taoist Philosophy (Philosophy, not religion) the goal is to rid oneself OF SELF, and to fill oneself with Love and Peace. To care for others above one’s self. Be advised that I am NOT stating that other religions are valid, but that there MAY be validity in the philosophy of men, that MAY actually be from God.
It doesn’t come down to Religion (Since religion is only a man made tool, to TRY to please God) What matters is the person and Whether or not THEY have received the love of God (Or better said, that God has chosen them to give the very nature and love of God).
And what is at the ROOT of my query is whether LOVE is what Jesus IS. And is THIS the thing of which ONE should aspire to obtain. :-\
It is said: Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)
Now, if this passage is true, which it is, does this mean that if a Heathen (A person not of Christian belief) who lays down his life for another, has this GREAT love and is in fact OF GOD? Since it would be very difficult (Yet not impossible) to commit an act such as giving up one’s life for selfish reasons. And if one was not “of self“, would that not mean that they were of someone else,…… perhaps being truly of God.
As Hillsbororiver has stated the answer to my question really does not matter, for ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED (Thank God!). And it is most important to understand this fact. The Lake of Fire is a GOOD THING, and in my opinion should not be feared or looked at in a negative light. Since all that God does is True and proper.
If we were to fear the Lake for ourselves or our loved ones, it would go against what Paul said when he stated that “We should fear nothing”. It also would go against the premise that “Perfect Love Casts Out All Fear“.
Hillsbororiver, you state: On it's surface these are very valid questions but I ask good compared to who, other men? Is that good enough for God our Father?
Dante says:
I am with you all the way on this. God’s standard is of the highest. And I am not debating this.
I am merely asking if God imputes Perfect love to a human, who happen to never have heard of Jesus. And in doing so, are they True Christians also??
We as Christians may have knowledge of God and Christ, but if we DO NOT HAVE LOVE, we are nothing. (I am not trying to insinuate that Christians do not have perfect love imparted to them. For there are those that obviously do!)
But, I most humbly was wondering if anyone had an opinion by using the word of God that there MAY be people who are Christians who have no knowledge of Christ.
If this is so, this MAY be a mark of true Christianity. Since we know, that Knowledge, wisdom, performing miracles and speaking in tongues, among other things, are NOT a proof of being Saved.
Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
So, if a man appears outwardly a good tree by producing good fruit, this MAY be an indicator of his status with God almighty. There are of course people who appear to do good things, yet in the darkness, they do evil.
BUT,..if you seek to truly know a man, and find him without major blemish, and his love shines out for all to see AND LOVE is foremost in his mind, is it possible that this is THE sign that God was speaking of here.
I ask these questions in the most humble fashion and put it to my elders in Christ.
Dante
Gregor:
Greetings Dante,
Please read Romans ch.2. Here is a sample:
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Hope that helps!
Blessings,
G.
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