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David:
Hi Gene. Interesting insights, thank you for sharing them.
Matthew 22:41-46 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “ The Son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: 44 ‘ The LORD said to my Lord, “ Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’? 45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—
I think these scriptures and the many that have been posted prove the pre-existence of Christ.
Snowfire:
Gene,
Ray's audio notes on the pre-existence of Christ may help.
http://bible-truths.com/audio/notes.htm
Rick,
Kat:
Hi Gene,
Glad you have joined the forum :)
We do have a clear statement from Jesus Christ about His preexistence before He was on earth. This is an absolute truth and no other Scripture can contradict this fact.
John 8:53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?"
v. 54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
v. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, "I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
v. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
v. 57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
v. 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
v. 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Kat on April 02, 2008, 07:33:22 AM ---
Hi Gene,
Glad you have joined the forum :)
We do have a clear statement from Jesus Christ about His preexistence before He was on earth. This is an absolute truth and no other Scripture can contradict this fact.
John 8:53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?"
v. 54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.
v. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, "I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
v. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
v. 57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
v. 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
v. 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Exactly Kat. Jesus makes it clear He knew abraham and saw Him, and the pharisees could not understand how. He wasn't even 50 years old they reason.
Yet Christ responds with "Before abraham was I AM."
I think thats cut and dry.
Good use of scripture kat!
God bless,
Alex
Gene Balthrop:
Alex..... When Jesus made that statement of ,"before Abraham i Am." Does not say in what way he was before Abraham, Jesus could have Just as easily meant He was in the plan of God before Abraham existed. There are no scriptures that show a preexistence activity. In Fact God said He (alone) created the heavens and all things in it Himself even using the phrase (BY MYSELF) which would show no one was with Him when He did it. The other logical question would be, why would God take a preexisting being Kill him and rebirth Him and Kill him again. What example would that be to us, but if God brought into existence a Human being without other presupposed advantages as a super preexistence being would have, and caused this ordinary man to walk perfectly that would give all of us encouragement. Because God took an ordinary man and perfected Him, As He can us also, now that would be something. But taking a super perfect Being and He walks perfect what does that mean to me, what does a God have to overcome. Not to mention it Say's Jesus (Learned Obedience) by the things He suffered, which shows He didn't have it before. Hardly a description of a super being who created everthing. If Jesus is our example He had to be exactly like us in ever way, not just in some ways , but every way. This is a big subject and I am not saying i understand it totally i am still learning, I will listen to Ray's tape on the subject and consider it further. Thanks for all the imput.
peace to you all...........gene
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