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predestined
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: phyllis on April 06, 2008, 05:19:25 PM ---Peace to you a"ll
Question: Does everbody here believe in predestine? That from the time you are born to the time you die has been determined?
thank y'all
--- End quote ---
Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of a hireling?
Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Psa 39:4 LORD, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it is; that I may know how frail I am.
Psa 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as a handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.
Also when we read the prophecies of Isaiah Chapter 53 we can see the life of Christ predestined, He is our example in all things.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Of course I am not saying that we have exactly duplicated experiences but we all experience disappointments, tragedies, heartache and varying trials and tribulations that form us into the creation God has preordained from the beginning. His work in us is all to His glory and it is also in His plan to share His glory with us!
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle you.
The apostles wondered why certain things happen to certain people and asked Jesus why was this man blind from birth?
Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
Hi Rodger,
This is one of those things of God that is difficult to wrap our minds around, kind of like "free will" or rather the lack of free will. As Ray teaches the parables all boil down to "many called, few chosen" it is God who does the calling and the choosing, He did this not as things were happening here on earth but before the foundation of the world was laid. No one "earns" the right or opportunity to be of the called and especially of the chosen, no one can boast of anything they did to be approved of God.
It is the Potter who before He even scoops the clay from the ground knows what He will be fashioning, He knows what must be done as He is creating His pot, vessel, jar, etc.
If the clay could feel and think I am quite sure it would think a very strange thing was being done to it as it experienced the kneading, treading, the Potter's wheel, and especially the kiln. Even though the clay does not know or even perceive all the hows and whys, the reasons it must be done like this the Potter does and it is His will that will be the end result.
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Isa 41:25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon mortar and as the potter treadeth clay.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot, I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
I believe that many called, few chosen, free will fallacy, and predestination are all the same thing, God is presently creating/fashioning us according to His design, plan and purpose. The following verses do not speak of the horrid Calvinist manmade doctrine of predestination but rather the ultimately glorious plan of salvation for all through Christ and His elect, who were chosen by Him before the Universe was created.
It is a mind boggling thing to contemplate and meditate on;
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you and peace, be multiplied.
His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,
Joe
mharrell08:
I was listening to the latest bible study going to work this morning. Ray quoted this verse from Isaiah 46:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
I would think that are lives are predetermined even with the our daily choices. If the end has been declared, how is it not predetermined? To answer your question Falconn003, I believe every life is predetermined including the causes and the effects for that life. What one's faith will or will not overcome has been predetermined as well. If the end has been declared, the actions to bring us to that end have been set in place and no one can change that. I do not know it all neither do I claim to, but the scriptures seem to say that it is God "willing" us and predetermining & choosing us as well.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Rodger
Just to add. You ask,
.....Would a predistined life be..... A life with many predistined choices affected by causes and effects to bring forth FAITH in us to OVERCOME or not overcome?
We are not the potter but the clay so yes!
God knows how to tolerate with much much patience, the vessels of His wrath that are fitted for destruction. Rom 9 : 22 What if God, although fully intending to show the awfulness of His wrath and to make known His power and authority, has tolerated with much patience the vessels of His anger which are ripe for destruction?
Peace to you brother
Arcturus :)
phyllis:
Joe thanks for those two cents. It was worth a million dollars. I think I understand what you are talking about. Could it be that all of our choices we make doing our life time takes us to our predetermined place in life? Where God has chosen us to be? A left turn here and a right turn there and bam, here we are right where we ought to be.
Thanks
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