> General Discussions
predestined
hillsbororiver:
Here is a portion from LOF Part 4 that may not exactly cover this topic but it is in the ballpark;
Theologians view the Scriptures in the same way little children view a marionette show. Like little children, they suppose that the marionettes are "truth." They suppose that what they see is the absolute truth. These marionettes really do walk and talk "by themselves;" they really do sing and dance "by themselves." Certainly to the immature and the uninitiated, they have that power within themselves. But, they haven't a clue as to what is happening behind the curtain. They haven't a clue as to how these little marionettes do what they do! They haven't even considered that there may be a higher power "operating" these marionettes.
In this, theologians are like little children. Theologians don't want to know what's going on behind the curtain. They are perfectly happy in their ignorance. They are entertained by their own false delusions, and ever so proud of their independence from God!
And why is it that little children are deceived by marionettes' lifelike behavior? Because the strings are very thin and the operators are hid behind the curtain. They can see them perform with their own eyes. They can hear them singing with their own ears. Surely that is proof enough for a little child. And what more proof do you have that humans "perform" independent from the One Who is operating all (Eph. 11:1)? None. God doesn't need thinner strings to fool us-God operates by Spirit. God doesn't need to hide behind a curtain-God is invisible (II Cor. 4:4).
Just as surely as children are fooled into believing that marionettes perform by their own powers, theologians and the wise of this world are fooled into thinking that man too can operate, in and by himself, independently of his own Creator.
Theologians teach this falsehood because they live by sight not by faith. Like little children, they don't perceive any strings nor the Operator, which are both invisible. So with them, as with children, they assume there are no operating forces in their lives-they are "free." Hence they refuse to believe even the Scriptural declarations that God is Operating all according to the counsel of His own will (Eph. 11:1), and that apart from Christ they can do nothing (Jn 15:5).
We are witnessing a worldwide Christian movement where the blind are leading the blind. They are like a Hollywood horror film where renegade marionettes band together and try to cut off the controlling strings, never to be operated against their wills by their Creator again. They want to have powers beyond what their Maker built into them. Everyone wants to be a Potter, when in reality, he is just a pot. "And now, Lord, Thou art our Father. And we are the clay. Thou art our Former, and the doing of Thy hand are we all" (Isa. 64:8).
It is an interesting point that of all mankind, Adam only, was formed directly from clay. But the original Hebrew of Isa. 64:8 says that "we all" are "the doing of Thy hand." God didn't form mankind and then wind him up like a clock to proceed through life all on his own power. No. We "are," (present tense) "the doing of Thy hand." I know it's humbling, but then again, the Truth of God has that effect on those who believe His Word. If you think I'm crazy, then accuse God's Word of being crazy, because that's where I'm reading this from. Someone might retort: "Mr. Smith, are you saying that I can't even move my little finger unless it is God's intention that I do so?"
That is exactly what I am saying. Because that is exactly what God is saying: " ... not far from each one of us is He [God] inherent, for in Him we are living and moving [our little finger] and are [exist] ... " (Acts 17:28). I'm sorry that there are people who are not happy with this arrangement; I am. It gives me confidence and hope to know that God is controlling everything to a perfect conclusion. Man only thinks he has independent free will from God, and look where this world is headed. Imagine the state of affairs if man actually did have free will.
Free will or independence from our Creator God is just an illusion. It is, nonetheless, a marvelous illusion. The genius of God is overwhelming. It is this very illusion that enables mankind to actually believe he is the master of his own fate. And God helps bolster this illusion by actually giving men a certain amount of success in their quest for power, fame, and fortune. But just like the King of Assyria, Pharaoh, and others, all, one day, will realize and appreciate the fact that it was God " ... operating all ... "
These inspired words of the Apostle Paul are so clear that one has to be downright stubborn as to the truth, not to believe them:
"Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. You will be protesting to me, then, 'Why, then, is He [God] still blaming? for who has withstood His intention?' O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, 'Why do you make me thus?' Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?" (Rom. 9:18-21)
God said He raised Pharaoh up for the express purpose of displaying His power in him (Ver. 17). It is an historical and Scriptural fact that God did this to Pharaoh. Ver. 18 then states that, consequently then, God is either "merciful," or "hardens" anyone He wants to. And whosoever they are have nothing to say about God's doing so.
Well, of course, if one is hostile against God and His word, his retort to this statement of Paul's would then be:
"WHY, THEN, IS HE STILL BLAMING?" (Ver. 19)
How can God hold people accountable for their sins when it was "He" [God] who brought about their condition? At least Paul's detractors had the sense to realize that if what Paul was saying is true, then they are solely at God's mercy (not their own ability) to ever change their condition, because their next statement is:
" ... for who has WITHSTOOD HIS INTENTION?" (Ver. 19).
God intends for men to go against His will (that's how men become lost so that God can then save them), but no one, absolutely NO ONE, has ever gone against God's INTENTION! Hey, don't get angry with me - I'm just quoting the Scriptures.
Notice that Paul does not even deign to answer such carnal questioning of God's wisdom. His response is:
"O MAN! WHO ARE YOU, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded WILL NOT protest to the molder, 'Why do YOU MAKE me thus'?" (Ver. 20).
God is GOD, and He does what He pleases. God "pleases" to have many Sons. God "pleases" to save ALL humanity and ALL in the heavens (Eph. 11:10-11, Col. 1:20, I Cor. 15:22, 28). Who are we to question God's process? Since God is both loving and wise and also possesses all power, why should anyone question God's ability to accomplish His own Will?
Theologians are audacious. They not only question God's ability to accomplish His own will; they flat out teach the whole world that the Great Creator God will NEVER accomplish His Own Will. Paul told Timothy:
" ... our Saviour, God, Who WILLS that ALL mankind be saved ... " (I Tim. 2:4).
Theologians the world over say: "IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!" They try to make God out a liar. They are the liars, deceivers, hypocrites, and blasphemers!
One thing is certain; God's greatest enemies are not qualified to be great teachers of His Word.
Maybe it's time we pulled back the curtain of tradition, ignorance, and immaturity and acknowledge Who is really "pulling the strings" of the universe.
But wait. I think I hear the Theological Peanut Gallery objecting already:
"Are you saying that people are mere 'marionettes'?" Or "robots?"
No. But what if there are certain similarities between robots and humans? Is that a "sin" on God's part? Certainly the human brain is many times more complex than all the computers in the world, but nonetheless, the human is still not independent of God.
I understand these things, but I don't go around all day feeling like a mechanical robot. We are highly complex creatures, with powerful emotions, brain power, and physical dexterity. For all these I thank God.
Every day we go places, do things, feel things, and make hundreds of choices. And God is not going to force you, against your will, to eat cherry pie for desert at lunch when what you are really craving is apple pie. But, nonetheless, it is God's operation of circumstances that will cause you to desire and choose the apple pie. Lest you think God is not concerned with tiny details, remember the story of the war that was lost because one nail came out of a horse's hoof.
Don't think that this is Eastern Fatalism. This is not "blind chance" or "whatever will be, will be." This is perfect foreknowledge and design of the Great Creator God Who is "operating all according to the counsel of His will." It doesn't just happen. There is perfect design behind all that God does. This is not fatalism. God causes it all.
Peace,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: phyllis on April 07, 2008, 02:17:07 PM --- Joe thanks for those two cents. It was worth a million dollars. I think I understand what you are talking about. Could it be that all of our choices we make doing our life time takes us to our predetermined place in life? Where God has chosen us to be? A left turn here and a right turn there and bam, here we are right where we ought to be.
Thanks
--- End quote ---
Yep!
You nailed it Sister! ;)
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
phazel:
--- Quote from: Falconn003 on April 07, 2008, 01:07:24 PM ---Hi there Joe
PS would like too know if Ray has a predestine article in the works ((no pun intended)) ;) ;D [/color]
--- End quote ---
Rays articles on the myth of free will covers predestination pretty heavily. If we are predestined, it seems that we could not have a determinate will at the same time.
hillsbororiver:
True phazel, here is the link to a very relevant portion;
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html
EVERYTHING HAS A PRECISE APPOINTED TIME
God Almighty is responsible for everything and He brings about everything only at its precise "APPOINTED SEASON AND TIME." Let's read it:
"To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
The implications of this verse are staggering. The very foundation of human psychology and theology crumbles under the weight of this declaration of God’s Word. This is undoubtedly one of the ten most profound Scriptures in the entire Bible.
If we are to be honest and believe this verse, then we must concede that absolutely NOTHING is left out God’s profound declaration except man’s anti-scriptural theory of "free will."
The word "season" in the KJV is translated from the Hebrew word, z[e]man, and is defined in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary as: "APPOINTED season, occasion, time." And "purpose" is defined as: "pleasure, desire, matter." Sometimes rendered as "purpose" or "event."
Here’s a second witness to this grand declaration:
"Because to every purpose [matter or event] there is time and judgment..." (Ecc. 8:6).
And a third witness:
"…for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work" (Ecc. 3:17).
Here are a couple translations that make this verse a little clearer:
"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).
"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).
There is no wasted motion in God's creation, purpose and plan. Everything has an appointed time, and everything includes: "every purpose, every work, every matter, every event, and every deed." Where pray tell does "free will" fit into all this? It doesn’t. It clearly DOESN’T. Man has no free will. There is no such thing as free will. It is but the phantom of an "obscured heart" as we learned in Part C from Ecc. 3:11.
Again we ask, since "EVERY work, purpose, matter, deed and event" under heaven must happen at an "APPOINTED TIME," how can there be such a thing as human, uncaused, "free-will?"
Is any man free to do anything other than what God HAS "appointed time" for? No.
Is any man free to do anything that God HAS NOT assigned an "appointed time" for? No.
Is any man free to do or not to do anything that God HAS or HAS NOT assigned an "appointed time" for? No.
Then how can man have a free will?
Man’s will is predicated on previous circumstances and causes, all of which originate in God’s preordained plan and purpose.
Christendom and her fabled doctrine of "free moral agency" is trapped and completely book-ended between:
[1] "To every thing there is a season [appointed time],and a time to every purpose [matter or event] under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
AND:
[2] "I know that, whatsoever God does...NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it" (Ecc. 3:14).
Someone might see a contradiction in God’s teaching. If the two above Scriptures are true, then why does God warn against "adding to or taking away from His word?" Well, like everything else that is beyond the realm of carnal comprehension, all of these things too, have been foreordained and pre-determined to happen only at their "APPOINTED TIME." God has appointed a time for false prophets to add and God has appointed a time for false prophets to take away from His word.
A lot of very good stuff here!
Peace,
Joe
Deborah-Leigh:
Again there is that word "overcometh" , Once it's role in predistine life is understood, it will show God's plan very more clearly.
Right Rodger! And once it is understood one begins to see that God is a God of timing! His timing is perfect! 8)
Peace be to you brother
Arcturus :)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version