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What ARE we saved from?
KristaD:
For those that have all that they want and are happy most of the time I'm sure it doesn't seem that we need saved in this life. But from someone who suffered greatly with drugs and depression I can assure you He saved me now, in this life, from my sin. Yes we are all destined for salvation eventually, but I am thankful every day that He made Himself known to me and dragged me kicking and screaming out of the hole I was in (be it real or in my mind) to life me up and give me strength and peace in the present. No, were are not really lost as He is everywhere and always with us, but when we are blind it's impossible to see Him even though He's there. Our state of mind believing that we are alone may very well be an illusion but it takes Him to overcome it, that is how He saves us from ourselves; He saves us from our minds/illusions.
phazel:
I understand what your saying and I am far from having a life where everything goes great, far, far from it.
I have depression now, I have been beaten and abused and neglected in my life, does God need to save me from it, or is it for a purpose. I find looking back, that I was taught by what I went through rather than being saved from it.
Would we not find evil in someone who picked up a person and threw them against their will into a deep pit only to pull them back out and talk about how great they were for saving the person they threw into a pit?
I guess we would be glad they did not leave us in there, but my point is that salvation may be a reletive VS absolute aspect of scripture.
We think we are being Saved, but is a God who sets us up, worthy of worship? We are subject to vanity unwillingly. But are we being saved from the vanity we are subject to or being taught by it?
KristaD:
Saving us from ourselves is not the same as saving us from a situation. He walks us through it (often drags me I feel) but doesn't immediately remove us from it. Yes it serves a purpose, or He would not cause it to happen. God doesn't throw us into the pit, He merely lets us wander into it following our own desires; according to His purpose. Yes it is His will that we fall in, but He doesn't push us. The most accurate comparison is to a parent, which He compares Himself to. As a parent I often let my children wander into situations that I know I can save them from so that they may learn by it. For example my son likes to wander away from us in stores, so sometimes I will hide and watch him. He realizes he is alone and gets scared, then I come out. That moment of fear teaches him much more than me simply saying "don't wander off", this is what God does with us only it's more organized by Him. God's saving is not once or twice, it's daily saving from our sins from our minds our own depravity. We are saved at the same time we are being taught. Now whether or not you feel that God is worthy of worship is on you. I, for one, feel that, wholeheartedly, yes He is worthy of all of our praise. He made us how we are but He does not force us to be this way, it is still our desire. That's why I feel such humility, that I can never do right without Him, b/c I am what I am. When He made Himself known in my life He started changing me into a new creature. One that didn't cause self destruction all of the time. Yes I have some hard times, but my spirit is changed, my attitude and outlook and I can see Him with me so yes I AM SAVED ;D, praise God everyday I am saved!!!
phazel:
I still do understand what you are saying, but there is nothing that God did not design and plan for.
It cannot be both ways, no matter how it is explained, no matter how it is rationalized here in this forum or by Rays teachings.
We have nothing that is of our own, even our own will is designed by Giod, even our carnal desires was designed by God. Our "WILL" is only ours because it is not someone elses, the carnal desire I might have as lust for another woman is there because God intended and designed it to be there.
The desire I had to do drugs was there because God intended and designed it to be there. If I am constantly being Saved from something in the humanistic view of being Saved then God is a monster who is inflicting pain upon us and saving us from it and manipulating us to think that we are being saved from something that apart from God we would not be saved from it.
See, without God, we would have never existed in the first place, without God, we would have never sinned or experienced evil or pain and suffering to be saved from because it would not have existed in the first place.
We exist, experience pain, experience suffering, we inflict pain and suffering only because God purposed it.
The ABSOLUTE is that EVERYTHING is part of the process of being created into the image of GOD. Everything else is reletive.
KristaD:
--- Quote from: phazel on April 14, 2008, 10:22:58 AM ---I still do understand what you are saying, but there is nothing that God did not design and plan for.
It cannot be both ways, no matter how it is explained, no matter how it is rationalized here in this forum or by Rays teachings.
We have nothing that is of our own, even our own will is designed by Giod, even our carnal desires was designed by God. Our "WILL" is only ours because it is not someone elses, the carnal desire I might have as lust for another woman is there because God intended and designed it to be there.
The desire I had to do drugs was there because God intended and designed it to be there. If I am constantly being Saved from something in the humanistic view of being Saved then God is a monster who is inflicting pain upon us and saving us from it and manipulating us to think that we are being saved from something that apart from God we would not be saved from it.
See, without God, we would have never existed in the first place, without God, we would have never sinned or experienced evil or pain and suffering to be saved from because it would not have existed in the first place.
We exist, experience pain, experience suffering, we inflict pain and suffering only because God purposed it.
The ABSOLUTE is that EVERYTHING is part of the process of being created into the image of GOD. Everything else is reletive.
--- End quote ---
You are right it is ALL His will. It was His will for me to do drugs, get pregnant as a teen, drink and party and lie and steal. But it was still my desire to do those things. Yes He made me to where I would desire it, but in my mind that doesn't make me less guilty of the crime of wanting/doing it. I felt just like you do at one point and said the same things. God showed me that just b/c I can't rationalize it and explain it all that doesn't mean He's wrong. He has a purpose we can not understand. In the end we must have faith that it will be worth it. It's like the saying "it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all", He knows something we don't (a lot things) and He has such beauty and wonder in store for us that we can't fathom it, but in the end we will look back on everything we went through and praise Him b/c it was all so worth it. This isn't something you can come to on your own, it's the faith part, the faith of Jesus that we receive from Him; and once we have His faith we are saved from our minds/sins and can overcome our situations and praise God for what we haven't seen yet.
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