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Author Topic: Saul and the witch of Endor  (Read 4242 times)

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Sozo

  • Guest
Saul and the witch of Endor
« on: May 06, 2008, 02:40:03 PM »

In 1 Samuel 28, Saul has a witch summon Samuel back from the dead.  This passage raises many questions:  Did this really happen?  Do witches really have the power to do this?  How does all of this make sense?

Has Ray written anything on this?  Does anyone have any insight that they could share on this passage?

Thanks

Sozo
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musicman

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »

It's the same as any snake sailsman today summoning one from the dead.  It wasn't the dead person speaking.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 03:20:40 PM »


Hi Sozo,

I found a couple of places where Ray addresses this very thing.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D2.htm --------

KING SAUL JUDGES:

Saul was a poor excuse for a king and sinned against God. We can't hate him, however, as he does admit his faults even though he doesn't repent very well, "Then said Saul, I have sinned: return, my son David: for I will no more do thee harm, because my soul was precious in your eyes this day: behold, I have played the fool, and have erred exceedingly" (I Sam. 26:21).

Later when God no longer speaks to Saul, neither through dreams, nor prophets, nor urim and thummim, he inquires from the lying spirit of a witch concerning his future. How interesting that it was Saul himself who enacted legislation forbidding witches in Israel, yet it is he who seeks out a witch for his own pleasure (I Sam. 28:7-9). So as Saul despises the Word of God and consults with a witch; so God foretells Saul's own demise through that witch ("With the pure You will show Yourself pure, and with the forward You will show Yourself forward," (Psalm 18:26).


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1860.0.html --------

Something is troubling me.  I have absolutely NO DOUBT that we die and return to dust.  I do not believe in floating off to heaven or eternal torment in hell upon death.  God has seen fit that I should know of the three resurrections.  So with this stated, what is the deal with Saul and Samuel starting at 1 Samuel 28:15?  We are dead, returned to dust so how can this be?  I apologize if my question seems childish;  I admit that I am a 37 year old "infant."  The only thing that I do know without doubt is that I don't know much!  Still far off from being "grown up" in God's TRUE WAYS.  If you find the time to answer then so be it.
 
Sincerely,
Robin

Dear Robin:
Samuel did not come back to life. It was all the vision of a WITCH. Some of them have connections with the demon world. That is why we are to have nothing to do with them. All witches were to be killed in Israel.

God be with you,
Ray

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Sozo

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 03:47:15 PM »

Thanks for the insight Kat.  That was helpful.
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 04:55:19 PM »

Hi! Soso,

Newbie here, welcome.

You can see these racketeers in little booths at every seaside resort calling themselves mediums. They fleece you with a load of lies, money grabbers just like the tithe merchants in the Babylon you have left. They wouldn't have fared so well in the dark ages.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 05:28:03 PM »

Here is another insight that I think nails it as well.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?action=profile,u=3,sa=showPosts,start...

325: Email to Ray / Eternal Punishment on : May 13, 2006, 08:04:20 AM

Dear Peter

Samuel was unconscious and DEAD during that whole Witch of Endor scenario. Our "spirit" does not have consciousness upondeath. No witch or demon has the power to bring a dead person back to life. God uses 2LYING SPIRITS" to commune and evil people such as Saul (See 1 Kings 22 : 22-23 & 11Chron. 18: 22-23)

God be with you
Ray
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 05:32:44 PM by Arcturus »
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Sozo

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 05:39:01 PM »

Arcturus,

I tried clicking on your link and it only sends me back to the home page.  Could you check it and make sure it is correct please?

Thanks,

Sozo
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 07:04:36 PM »


Hi Sozo,

Here is the link to the email Arcturus posted.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,742.0.html

And I found another email too.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,124.0.html -------

Dear Anton:

Saul does not obey or trust God.

So he goes to a pagan inspired witch that are condemned in Israel.

The witch has a familiar spirit--a demon.

Saul asks the witch to call up Samuel's spirit--a pagan teaching.

God actually caused this opportunity to tell Saul his fate by the channel that Saul himself choose.

God revealed the fate of Saul through this witch.

Samuel was never there. Saul assumed that the "old man" had to be Samuel. It was not.

God be with you,
Ray

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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 12:20:25 PM »

Hi Sozo  :D
Ezekiel 14:4
Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;


God answers us according to the idols of our heart.

Saul idolized HIMSELF, in my opinion.  He believed that when God stopped talking to him, he (Saul) could STILL get the information that he wanted by "climbing in another way." And so...according to that idol, God did indeed answer Saul. You go looking for a ghost, you'll see a ghost.  You want an alien to talk to you....you may very well get your wish. Please note that this is my opinion, formed by what I've understood Ray to teach, and certainly open for correction by anyone possessing a better understanding.
Sincerely,
Joyce :)
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 02:34:12 PM »

Hi Sozo  :D
Ezekiel 14:4
Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;


God answers us according to the idols of our heart.

Saul idolized HIMSELF, in my opinion.  He believed that when God stopped talking to him, he (Saul) could STILL get the information that he wanted by "climbing in another way." And so...according to that idol, God did indeed answer Saul. You go looking for a ghost, you'll see a ghost.  You want an alien to talk to you....you may very well get your wish. Please note that this is my opinion, formed by what I've understood Ray to teach, and certainly open for correction by anyone possessing a better understanding.
Sincerely,
Joyce :)


Hi! Joyce

Good one that. Yes I believe the same thing. The lord did indeed shut the front door to Saul because he was an unreliable shepherd of His sheep, but like a thief he tried to break his way into the fold by the back door. But instead of finding the sheep he came face to face with the wolf. "..I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture. The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly..." (Jn.10:7-10).

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 03:54:27 PM »

Hey Kat

I am glad you came up with that link!!

Peace to you sister
Arc :)
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Sozo

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 04:47:47 PM »

You guys are great.  Thanks for all the valuable information on this subject.
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 07:14:34 PM »

Hello!

Hmm............Well, I feel like blaming on Saul. Like it was Saul's idol himself and nothing happened are of the Lord. May I give you some scriptures verses below?


1Sa 16:14  But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.


Pro 16:9  A man's heart [as Saul] deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth [established] his steps.


Pro 20:24  Man's [as Saul] goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?


Jer 10:23  O LORD, I know that the way of man (as Saul) is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct [established] his steps.


Exo 4:21  And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his [as Saul] heart, that he shall not let the people go.


Eze 14:9  And if the prophet [as Endor] be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.


Rom 9:11  For the children [include Saul] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth;


Dan 4:17  This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.



After resurrection/white throne judgment:

Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed [as Saul] say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me [as Saul] thus?


Rom 9:22  What if God, willing [wanting] to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (as 1 Timothy 2:4)


Psa 76:10  Surely the wrath of man [as Saul] shall praise thee [Lord]: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.


Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:

Hope this will humble you. ;)



That's all folks! ;D

Brett 8)

P.S. No worry, be happy
1Pe 5:7 (ISV) Throw all your worry on him, because He cares for you.


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joyful1

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Re: Saul and the witch of Endor
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 05:39:06 AM »

:) good verses, Bret!
Joyce :)
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