Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
Hii! Arcturus
I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).
In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.
I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
Roy,
Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew even though the Jews were morally corrupt? No. Was this an idol of his heart? No. So, how is this issue any different than one calling them self a Christian?
No matter what you call yourself, a member of Babylon will always assume the 2 of you are of like mind. They are the ones deceived as we both know. Every name/title that means to follow Christ has a stigma to it. And we both agree that the members of Babylon are the ones that placed this stigma to these titles. But does our Lord judge us by this title or by how we live? I could call myself a Member of the Body of Christ but it would be in vain if I do not follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus.
That is the reason why I said it created division. Some believers think of the title Christian from its original scriptural meaning: follower of Christ. But then others (see the division?) say: that title is evil, don't associate yourself with it. With that line of thinking, you could not call yourself ANYTHING because members of Babylon has desecrated every title/name that is associated with following Christ. What you then have is people confused as to what to call themselves. My posts have been more for our "guests" who may be coming around to the Truth and I do not wish for ANYONE to be a stumblingblock for them. Hope this helps your understanding.
Marques
Hi! Marques
To answer your questions:
1...."Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew?" Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood Jew to be a national identity, descended from Judah. The same as being American, German, English or French. The name Christian is not a national name, it is the name of a particular group of people.
2... Now as far as Babylon always assuming that the two of us are of the same mind. Well, I couldn't care less what Babylon thinks I have come out from their midst, and I mean a complete come out of their midst and count all to do with them a complete loss.
3... Whether our Lord judges us by this title or by how we live, I haven't a clue, judgment is the Lord's jurisdiction and I don't infringe in that area.
4...If people calls themselves members of the Body of Christ and do not follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus, then I'd say they will have reneged and are no different to the party they have come out of.
5...When you meet believers who think of Christian from its original Scriptural meaning, then it's up to us to give them a reason for why we believe as we do:
"...but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:" (1Pet.3:15)
Brother we are separate, we are in Christ, we are a New Creation, we are a New Name, must we concern ourselves with what Babylon and the outside world think of us. Let them see our conduct through our love and behaviour and be their own judge.
In the final analysis, we must each follow what the indwelling Spirit of the Lord is saying to us and follow how and where He is leading us. I can only offer my help, in love, and give you my opinion on what I believe the Spirit is saying to me.
God bless you, my brother, I understand your position but this is what I believe and I cannot go against that, so forgive me.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.