> General Discussions
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
Sorin:
Joe, point well taken and I concur.
ertsky:
and also let's remember that love requires that we remain faithful to the doctrine of Christ above all else. He that is agreeing with false doctrine after two solid refutations is not going to get a "good on you mate" or gentle conciliation from me.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Jesus loves me so much, and this is why He sometimes chastises me, it's for my own benefit, it is love
do i say this because i disagree with anyone? no way
do i think i am better than anyone? in no way
but false doctrine is false doctrine and love commands me
2Jo 1:10 if any one doth come unto you, and this teaching doth not bear, receive him not into the house, and say not to him, `Hail!'
2Jo 1:11 for he who is saying to him, `Hail,' hath fellowship with his evil works.
sometimes love appears like this
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
sometimes love appears like this
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Joh 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
many people get it wrong! they think
nice = spiritual
harsh = carnal
that's so very wrong! that is not judging a righteous judgement
nice can be carnal or spiritual
harsh can be carnal or spiritual
heres how it should look
carnal = carnal
spiritual = spiritual
that's why i like to focus mainly on the doctrine not the messenger
the doctrine is either true or false
sometimes i might think "i don't like this dude"
other times i might think "wow what a cool dude"
then i think "who cares what i think" lets check the doctrine.
i just typed this because it's a really big problem when believers don't realise that resisting false doctrine and those that bring it is very very important work.
we have plenty of niceness but we don't have plenty of people paying attention to doctrine. we have plenty of people worried about the social niceties but not enough people studying to show themselves approved of God.
if i am over zealous or harsh defending the truth, God can chasten that out of me easily.
if i am super nice but let false doctrine in then i am in bad shape.
if for every nine comments on a person there is only one comment on that persons doctrine. it should be the other way around.
how different are james and john when viewed according to style and yet when viewed according to doctrine they are of one mind even the mind of Christ.
f
SteveB:
--- Quote ---We are not trying to change anybody, but rather Exposing Those who contradict. Titus 1:9
SteveB, didn't start this for Hank's benefit, but for ours.
--- End quote ---
The whole idea of my post was to show how WEAK the arguments of orthodox christianity are. And like Paul says, to expose those that contradict.
I love Hank Hanagraaff. I would do cartwheels if God were to change his mind to the Truth.
Is it possible to call a spade a spade and Love the person? Please read this.
http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm
--- Quote ---My original question was "why do we care what this guy (hellfire Hank) thinks?" It is not intended as a condemnation of SteveB at all! I know I am not alone in learning much from many of Steve's posts, and I consider him a Brother in Christ, very thankful for his fellowship in the Forum.
--- End quote ---
Thank you Joe and i too have learned a lot from your posts including the ones on this thread. I too consider you a Brother in Christ and am glad you are a mod.
--- Quote ---My point was, (and I probably did a good job in screwing it up) is that debating, refuting and challenging other peoples belief system is not always an edifying experience for everyone or even anyone involved. It has been my experience (and Bobby relayed this same feeling) that when we seek to confront heresy we can sometimes do it in a carnal fashion, more so in the vain glory of being "right" rather than sharing spiritual wisdom. It is especially dangerous for the newer folks who have discovered this wonderful treasure which is His Word, yes, we should defend the faith when the situation presents itself but when we are not ready, when we should rather be studying and seeking the fruits of the spirit we can become bogged down and disenchanted by these contests or a lack of discernment in choosing our battles;
--- End quote ---
Wise counsil there. That being said Christ exposed, Paul exposed, Ray exposes, and Mike exposes. I too will continue to expose. OUt of a pure heart and with the edification of the BODY in mind, always.
YOu are right about being easily puffed up about the new found wisdom given to us in the scriptures. I fight it everyday; we all fight it.
As i said, I was not debating Hank or anyone else for that matter. My only thing was to show this DAMNABLE, SICK, LOATHESOME, 'hell' doctrine for what it is. And to EDIFY this Body on just how STUPID the ARGUMENTS ARE. NOT because i hate Hank but because I LOVE HANK AND ALL OF YOU!
There are people who come to his forum who are 'on the rocks' over this doctrine and showing them how LAME these arguements are is a blessing to me, and maybe will change minds(Godwilling).
--- Quote ---
I believe growing (in spirit) to the point of having pure charity/love for our brothers and sisters and especially our enemies is the highest calling, again I hope this is taken as food for thought and not as a condemnation of anyone. Thank you all for your comments.
Joe
--- End quote ---
This is so true Joe. The Love of our enemies is our high calling. I love Hank, with God as my witness, I do.
Love does doctrine(as Mike says). I will be more thoughtful in my future posts and thank you for not condeming me.
Love in the commandment of God,
Steve
hillsbororiver:
Steve, thank you for the kind words my brother, I believe we are of the same mind and seek the same goal.
Joe
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: ertsky ---and also let's remember that love requires that we remain faithful to the doctrine of Christ above all else. He that is agreeing with false doctrine after two solid refutations is not going to get a "good on you mate" or gentle conciliation from me.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Jesus loves me so much, and this is why He sometimes chastises me, it's for my own benefit, it is love
do i say this because i disagree with anyone? no way
do i think i am better than anyone? in no way
but false doctrine is false doctrine and love commands me
2Jo 1:10 if any one doth come unto you, and this teaching doth not bear, receive him not into the house, and say not to him, `Hail!'
2Jo 1:11 for he who is saying to him, `Hail,' hath fellowship with his evil works.
sometimes love appears like this
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
sometimes love appears like this
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Joh 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
many people get it wrong! they think
nice = spiritual
harsh = carnal
that's so very wrong! that is not judging a righteous judgement
nice can be carnal or spiritual
harsh can be carnal or spiritual
heres how it should look
carnal = carnal
spiritual = spiritual
that's why i like to focus mainly on the doctrine not the messenger
the doctrine is either true or false
sometimes i might think "i don't like this dude"
other times i might think "wow what a cool dude"
then i think "who cares what i think" lets check the doctrine.
i just typed this because it's a really big problem when believers don't realise that resisting false doctrine and those that bring it is very very important work.
we have plenty of niceness but we don't have plenty of people paying attention to doctrine. we have plenty of people worried about the social niceties but not enough people studying to show themselves approved of God.
if i am over zealous or harsh defending the truth, God can chasten that out of me easily.
if i am super nice but let false doctrine in then i am in bad shape.
if for every nine comments on a person there is only one comment on that persons doctrine. it should be the other way around.
how different are james and john when viewed according to style and yet when viewed according to doctrine they are of one mind even the mind of Christ.
f
--- End quote ---
Hi Frank, I hope that you did not think my post reflected an idea we accept any bile thrown our way in the name of "love."
No, what I was trying to do was have people consider their motives when entering into a debate or seeking to go into churches, adversarial chatrooms or message boards with their newfound knowledge. This was never intended to chastise Steve or anyone else.
As a moderator here I have deleted posts and made it known to some "preachers" that this forum will not be a platform to heresy nor will it be a conduit to the indoctrination of our members.
I think we here have had many similar experiences through varying stages of our walk in Him, my own experience as a zealous "newbie" led me into countless debates with friends, family & strangers, I can tell you truthfully that very often it left me feeling tied in knots and sometimes questioning even my core beliefs because His spirit was not my motivator or guide through these exchanges.
Now that I wait for my time to witness it seems that His spirit is with me, giving answers and guiding me to patience and longsuffering, not anger or frustration. I think He would be more pleased with us as we set a good example, be generous with the less fortunate and charitable with all who come into contact with us than winning an argument in a chatroom or worse, suffer loss in our spiritual journey.
Jesus had a well defined mission from God the Father, if anyone has been commissioned by Him to seek debates and strife with others rather than meeting heresy with sound doctrine then by all means they should go and do His will. I happen to believe that most of us would be better off seeking growth in the spirit unto perfection.
Again, these ideas I thought were worth consideration.
Peace Brother,
Joe
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