Are you the elect?

[winner08]

I read alot of these threads. I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect. Is this correct? Myself I feel that I'm not part of this elect group. That I will suffer in the lake of fire. I was just wondering do you who be live that you are part of this group know for sure that you are? No disrespect to anyone. I'm just a baby in the Lord's truth.

                                               Darren

[Jackie Lee]

I don't know if I am, but the more sins I overcome will be less time in the lake of fire.

[musicman]

I assure you that at this time I am not.

[winner08]

I guess from growing up in a man made system all my life and now seeing I was lied to all those yrs. I'm jaded. When someone says this is what God wants you to do or believe, I have a hard time believing. Now with Ray it is different because He will give me chapter and verse what ever he's talking about. He will give me scripture. Then I will look it up for myself.It's different from these preachers on TV who tell me what God wants from me, or what God wants me to do. (It's always involves money).I guess when I hear someone say they are the elect it makes me wonder. Like I said I'm jaded.

                                      Darren

[mharrell08]

I read alot of these threads. I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect. Is this correct? Myself I feel that I'm not part of this elect group. That I will suffer in the lake of fire. I was just wondering do you who be live that you are part of this group know for sure that you are? No disrespect to anyone. I'm just a baby in the Lord's truth.

                                               Darren

Hello Darren,

If anyone states that they are of the elect, you would probably be wise to not believe them. Our Lord does the choosing and only He knows "those that are His" (2 Tim 2:19). Personally, I do not claim to be of the elect though it is a calling I strive for.

Also, I have noticed a couple of your posts and you have one of the most humble attitudes on display. I honestly admire that and hope to be inspired to be the same. The attitude of humbleness is an aspect that I think you see missing from ones who act as if they are already "the chosen". This is something I have been reflecting on today as well.

I'm sorry you feel jaded regarding your past experiences. I know one day our Lord will bring you through those feelings but only on His time. I once felt the same coming from the Babylonian Word of Faith following to the Truths of His Word. Our Lord got me through it and I know He will do the same for you.


Marques

[Martinez]

God only knows.

[Kat]

Hi Darren,

The way I see this is we can know if we are having our eyes opened to these truths and that Christ is working within us.  If His spirit is indwelling we most certainly can have hope of being one of the chosen/Elect.

John 14:19  "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
v. 20  At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
v. 21  He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

But the thing is to be of the chosen/Elect you must remain faithful and endure to the end.  As with the parable of the sower (Matt 13), look how many receive this truth only for one reason or another to fall away.  Those that fall away were never destined to be one of the Elect, because Christ will not lose any that are His.

John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Here are excerpts from the transcript 'CAN WE LOSE GOD'S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?'
This Bible study talks alot about having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html -----

John 6:63  It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

See you can not really differentiate between those two.  Spirit is life, spirit doesn't die.  Flesh dies.  If you have life in you, you have God's Spirit.  If you have God's Spirit in you, you have life.  It doesn't mean that you're not going to physically die, but at least while you're living you have some other kind of life in you.  If you don't have that life in you, then you're no different than an infidel that has no religion, no faith and maybe has not even any morality as to why he should live above any other citizens or criminals or whatever.  
v
v
If you just read all the words and be careful for those little words 'if' or 'because' and things like that.  You'll have all this and this and this and then Paul will say BECAUSE, you did this or you're doing that.  You've got to read the words.

Col 1:21  And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled (KJV)

Col 1:21  And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconcilES [It's a process] (Concordant)

Col 1:22  In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in His sight:

So notice that verse ends with a colon, not a period.  Here's the answer to ALL of these verses, it's found in the very next verse.  The problem is the reader stops with verse 22.  He quotes verse 21 and then verse 22 and then he says there it is, there is this truth.  Now let's read the next verse 23.  Because you've been reconciled and you will be presented unblamable and all that and verse 23...

Col 1:23  IF you continue  in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Is that too hard to understand?  Well lets ask ourselves the question, what do you suppose would happen if we don't continue?  Well this reader says it does not matter, we have it.  IT MATTERS.  "If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..."  See that's how you have it, "IF you continue."  I like how Rotherham says it, I checked the Greek and it does kind of have that connotation, he says;  

Col 1:23 If, at least, ye are abiding still in the faith...

"If, at least" you've got to be doing that, okay.  Then you will have all of these things.  Again the big 'if.'

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation...

So you mean you can receive the truth and you can be locked into all these Scriptures, like this reader says, but then you can do something wrong?  Yes, you can.  
v
v
Rom 8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life...

Now here is the point I want to make, spirit is life and life is spirit.  Now back to verse 15.  

Can we lose out... well we read the Scripture that if you sin willfully - willingly there is no more sacrifice for you.  Now look at this verse, many people probably never really saw it before.  

1 John 3:15  Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding (the Greek is "staying or "REMAINING")  in him.

So the Greek is staying or remaining.  Now if you just read that without all the background that I'm giving you, then you get the feeling that, well he won't be given God's abiding life.  No, he already has it.  The only way something cannot stay in you or not remain in you, is if it's in you.  Do you follow that?  It's in you.  

He's not talking to Barbarians here or infidels, he's talking to the congregation who have the spirit of God.  But he says if you hate your brother the spirit of God will no longer stay with you, it will no longer be in you.  If the Spirit of God is not in you, you are no longer His.  Then you are going to the judgment.  That's just how simple that is.  All through these Scriptures if you read carefully, maybe it doesn't have it just like this, but this is just a poor translation.  But if you read Concordant and Rotherham and all, they will tell you to 'stay' - 'remain.'  It means to remain, but it won't remain.  You see it's there, but it's coming out.  
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I guess what it comes down to is we can be in the race and have hope of being of the Elect, but the only way we will know for sure is to be in the resurrection 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Stevernator]

I don't know. Not in my current condition anyway, I still need to overcome some things. I hope so. It is really humbling because I have not really been persecuted and back in the day so many of the early disciples were beaten and martyred. Although such persecution is not as likely to happen in modern western society I suppose but we can still be persecuted in other ways. Also I have not been through too many trials but I am still young. Only God knows for sure.

2 peter 1

4through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.

5And this same also -- all diligence having brought in besides, superadd in your faith the worthiness, and in the worthiness the knowledge,

6and in the knowledge the temperance, and in the temperance the endurance, and in the endurance the piety,

7and in the piety the brotherly kindness, and in the brotherly kindness the love;

8for these things being to you and abounding, do make [you] neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ,

9for he with whom these things are not present is blind, dim-sighted, having become forgetful of the cleansing of his old sins;

10wherefore, the rather, brethren, be diligent to make stedfast your calling and choice, for these things doing, ye may never stumble,

11for so, richly shall be superadded to you the entrance into the age-during reign of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[jerreye]

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation...

This verse to me is saying as long as you are in a state of "willfull sin", there remains no more sacrifice FOR these sins, since you no longer care and are WILLFULLY sinning. I don't believe that this means that one cannot "come to himself" and to see their face in the mud and RETURN to God. This verse isn't talking of a single sin in time, but an attitude of willfully sinning against God with a hardened heart.

If you continue in willful sin (a life style), then all that is left for you is a fearful EXPECTATION of judgment, based on your unwillingness to STOP sinning.

I know that Ray teaches that there IS no unpardonable sin and that there is only ONE SIN that will not be forgiven in this age or the next age and that sin is to blaspheme the holy spirit, by contributing the works of God to the works of the devil.

God says IF we confess our sins, He will forgive us our sins. However, if a man in WILLFULLY sinning, will he ever have the heart to confess his sins to God? Most likely not!

I believe there is always hope in you if you don't FAINT (give up) and WILFULLY walk away from the hope of the Gospel that you have heard.

[David]

To answer the question, thats for God to decide.
I live by faith and live in hope.
I think that if one thinks they are, then the chances are they are not.
You should listen to Ray's talk on "How hard is it to get saved". I think its also on video google to watch. Being in the 1st ressurection, meeting the criteria required is probably the hardest thing any human can achieve.
I think its fair to say that because Ray was confined to time when he did this talk, he could have gone on a lot longer about the requirements for Gods elect. Its huge.

[Craig]

I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect.

Can you let me know what thread you read where anyone feels they are the elect?

I don't recall a statement like this made.  I think if I start seeing folks here make that claim, I'm running to the exit.

Hope of being elect, yes.  Stating you are elect, run.

Craig

[Chris R]

God knows who are His, We are not to judge such matters, God works in mysterious ways, His ways are not our ways.

Peace

Chris R

[Patrick]

I think if I start seeing folks here make that claim, I'm running to the exit.

Craig

I'll be in front of you or very close behind you!

[winner08]

My mistake craig. Like I say in most of my post I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time or the last. Sorry.

                                            Darren

[Roy Monis]

I read alot of these threads. I notice alot of you feel that y'all are the elect. Is this correct? Myself I feel that I'm not part of this elect group. That I will suffer in the lake of fire. I was just wondering do you who be live that you are part of this group know for sure that you are? No disrespect to anyone. I'm just a baby in the Lord's truth.

                                               Darren

Hi! Darren

Brother! There are no adults here we are all babes and none of us can claim that distinction, I think even Ray wouldn't make such a claim either. We will all have to go through that lake of fire. If it's any consolation book a place next to me and I'll promise to hold your hand even though my knees will be knocking together furiously as well.

You are not on your own by a long way, it may come as a surprise to find that you get through a lot quicker than some of us, me included. Take courage brother, you're not that bad or you wouldn't be here. I hope that's some consolation?

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK

[joyful1]

What about "make sure of your election?"

2 Peter 1:9-10

9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I've always assumed that we can only HOPE for election.....? Does the above verse mean that we strive BECAUSE we hope? Or does it mean that we have assurance, because; whatever work He has begun in us He WILL finish?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

We know for sure that His Spirit bares witness with our spirit that we ARE the children of God....

Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

but what does that REALLY mean? Will our spirit and His Spirit stand and be the witnesses necessary to establish that we are His on judgement day, or does it mean that as we become ONE with Christ, and hence ONE with the Father, we are being shown by the Father and Christ that we ARE sons of God? A kind of "ongoing" process? I've often thought about the whole "is, was, and will be" application here. Any thoughts?
Joyce

[KristaD]

Forgive me, I haven't read all of the post on this thread. My feeling is that God is working in me, showing me things and purging me of sin. I have NO IDEA if this means that I am one of the elect and even thinking that I may be seems totally out there to me really. I feel blessed that He is working on me but I certainly don't feel that I am in any way deserving of, or that I could even accept a position of reigning with Christ. I feel that He called me out and is daily showing me truths, but I sure don't feel elect just blessed and that's plenty good enough for me .

[winner08]

Thanks Roy from the UK: I appreciate all the kindness that you have shown me. Your words are a comfort.

                                          Thanks Darren

[Stevernator]

Hi Krista,
Well Peter talks about steps to make our calling and election sure. So I wonder if we can conclude that if we dilligently do these things then one is elect??

[Roy Monis]

To answer the question, thats for God to decide.
I live by faith and live in hope.
I think that if one thinks they are, then the chances are they are not.
You should listen to Ray's talk on "How hard is it to get saved". I think its also on video google to watch. Being in the 1st ressurection, meeting the criteria required is probably the hardest thing any human can achieve.
I think its fair to say that because Ray was confined to time when he did this talk, he could have gone on a lot longer about the requirements for Gods elect. Its huge.

Hi! David

Well said brother. While in Babylon I met quite a few who had reservations right at the foot of Christ's throne.
Sadly I couldn't see what they were sitting on, there was nothing there only an illusion. There is a time for everything under the sun and it appears as though it is their time to dream pleasant dreams.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK