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The Holy Spirit, (HIMSELF)
winner08:
Hello everyone. My friend and I were discussing the Holy Spirit. She believes the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father are one. I said no. Then I said the Holy Spirit is God's power. I don't know if that's correct. Then I just was reading ray's teaching on payer. Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what we should prayfor as we ought,but the Spirit (Himself)makes intercession for us. The King James calls the Holy Spirit HIMSELF. What does that mean? HIMSELF. Does this mean the HOLY SPIRIT is an entity? Like God or Jesus?A separate being. #1 God, #2 Jesus and #3 The Holy Spirit? I always thought of the Holy Spirit being a Spirit, God's power. That he imparts with our human spirit so that we may know these truths of God. Anyways, all help is appreciated.
Thanks Darren
Robin:
This is from Is God a Closed TRINITY or an Open FAMILY?
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
WHO, OR WHAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT?
Jesus told His disciples in John 16:7:
"It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will NOT COME UNTO YOU; but if I depart, I will SEND HIM unto you."
Is this "comforter" the third God of a trinity? Let us see Who this Comforter really is! Didn’t you ever wonder why this Comforter could not come until Christ departed? The comforter does not come until Christ departs to the Father, because the comforter IS THE SON returning in the form of "spirit," "holy spirit." Jesus is saying to him,
"I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).
"Now, whenever the consoler [comforter] which I shall be sending you from the Father..."
Notice that Christ sends the comforter from the Father and what Jesus instructs. And notice that it does not involve a third person of a fabled trinity:
"Yet whenever that may be coming--the spirit of truth [Jesus said that HE is the Truth]--it will be guiding you in to all the truth, for it will NOT be speaking from itself [it is NOT A GOD], but whatsoever it should be hearing [from Whom sent it] will it be speaking, and of what is coming will it be informing you. That will be glorifying ME, seeing that of MINE will it be getting, and informing you. All, whatever the Father has, is MINE. THEREFORE I said to you that OF MINE IS IT GETTING, AND WILL BE INFORMING YOU." (John 16:13-15).
This is not hard to understand. The spirit of Truth is Christ. The comforter is Christ. The spirit will be speaking TO the disciples THROUGH Christ’s spirit which is His because the Father gave this spirit TO HIM! There’s no trinity here.
Jesus said:
"I will NOT leave you bereaved [comfortless], I am coming to you [in the form of the comforter and spirit of truth]" (Jn 14:18).
Now notice how clear Jesus makes this. Who or What is this spirit, holy spirit, holy ghost, spirit of truth, comforter? Is it really the third person of a triune God? Let Jesus Himself answer:
"IN THAT DAY [the day when the comforter comes] you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I IN YOU" (Jn 14:20).
"Now the consoler [comforter], THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending IN MY NAME, that will be teaching you all, and reminding you of all that I said to you" (Jn 14:26).
"I am going, and I AM COMING TO YOU" (Jn. 14:27).
JESUS CHRIST BY MEANS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH HIS FATHER GAVE TO HIM IS THE COMFORTER. THE GREEK PROVES THAT CHRIST IS THE COMFORTER!
In the Greek, the "comforter" or consoler is translated from parakleetos. Now, is there any Scriptural proof that Jesus Christ is called "parakleetos?" Yes there is. In I John 2:1 we read:
"And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just."
In the King James it says we have an "advocate" [with a small "a"]. King James ALWAYS capitalizes the Greek word "parakleetos," so why don’t they capitalize it here? You see, "advocate" or a better translation "Entreater" is translated from the GREEK WORD "parakleetos!"
HERE IS PROOF POSITIVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE "PARAKLEETOS!"
Isn’t is just amazing what we can learn when we just read and truth of God’s Word instead of the strange and unscriptural teaching of theologians?
No, God is not a trinity. Yes, God is a family. We can be members (Sons) of His Family, Brothers with Christ. What a marvelous plan God is bring about. Here then is the Gospel to all nations and all peoples everywhere:
"For since, in fact, through a man [Adam] came death, through a Man [Jesus Christ], also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, THUS ALSO, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified [given immortal life]. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to HIS GOD AND FATHER, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power... The last enemy is being abolished: DEATH... then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be ALL IN ALL" (I Cor. 15:21-28).
These are from email.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6881.msg54902.html#msg54902
Dear Anner: Jesus Christ was "conceived by the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20). You say that the Holy Spirit is a person. That is unscriptural. If the Holy Spirit is a person, and Jesus was conceived BY THAT PERSON called the Holy Spirit, then Jesus would be "the Son OF THE HOLY SPIRIT." But Jesus is nowhere called the Son of the Holy Spirit, but He is called "the Son OF THE FATHER" (II John 1:3). Every little school boy in the street knows that whoever conceives a child in a mother's womb IS THE FATHER of that child when it is born! But not Christians, no, not Christians--Christians believe that one man can conceive a child and then when it is born it is the SON OF A DIFFERENT PERSON. Give me a break. This is just one of the unscriptural foolish contradictions with the pagan theory of a triune god. I will continue to believe the Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3514.0.html
Dear Charles:
Jesus is the Personification of the Holy Spirit (His SPIRIT FATHER living IN Him). Therefore, the Person Jesus is the "He and the Him," not the Spirit of God in Him. God the Father OWNS, if you will, His OWN Spirit. It belongs TO Him. IT is HIS. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT OWN GOD THE FATHER. Can you see and understand that? God HAS a spirit. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT HAVE A GOD, therefore, it is an IT, and not a HE or a HIM. I have explained this many dozens of times on our site, but you are the second person today to ask this same kind of question. It is hard to rid ourselves of the Christian pagan doctrines of the Church.
God be with you,
Ray
jerreye:
If you notice in the KJV it says "ITself" - I believe this to be the correct rendering. However, using "Himself" would just be personifying the Father's Spirit anyway, so it doesn't really matter if it is "Himself" or "Itself". It is the power of God / spirit of God that "makes intersession for us".
winner08:
Yes jerreye: That's what I stated in my post. The King James Bible refers to The Holy Spirit as HIMSELF. If I understand M.G. The Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ (HIMSELF). I mean Jesus told the disciples after I'm going I will send the comforter. After Jesus goes back up to His Father He will send the comforter. So can't send them the comforter because He was still alive with His disciples. SEND being the word. I wonder if I understand M.G.
Darren
Robin:
I must admit that it confuses me also, Darren.
The part about the Father being spirit and also having a spirit goes right over my head. And now Jesus is spirit and shares the Father's spirit is also hard for me to understand. We have a spirit that gives us life and also the Spirit of God. That's a lot of spirits, lol.
I don't quite have this in my little box of understanding yet.
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