> General Discussions
Near Death Experiences
musicman:
--- Quote from: carol v on May 23, 2008, 07:52:08 AM ---
--- Quote from: musicman on May 21, 2008, 07:04:54 AM ---Darren,
Showing someone a hell that does not exist is not a Godly, rather a Satanic thing to do. It would teach them nothing of value.
--- End quote ---
I don't want to get in a debate here, but when you say that nothing of value can be learned from Satan aren't you writing off the entire Book of Job. Since God Himself sends strong delusion while at the same time having a perfect plan to bring all humanity into His image, then there must be a reason and a value to deception. The existence of hell is certainly a strong delusion -- a very, very, very strong delusion.
We must eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- that means getting deceived, doing the wrong thing, and learning some valuable lessons from God's tool known as Satan. God created Satan and called all of His creation "very good" so I wouldn't just write off the lessons we learn from Satan as being of no value.
Carol
--- End quote ---
I believe my quote of Darren was in response to the notion that perhaps God shows people glimpses of hell to frighten them and bring them to repentance. If God is calling one to true repentance, He is not going to show him/her a hell that doesn't exist. Rather, in such cases, the sinner would be called to the truths of God and not delusions.
Heidi:
;D Allow me to jump on board...what a facinating bit of debating going on.
I do not discredit anyone that claim they have had a near death experience. Their experience was very real to them, and it has changed their lives profoundly. But that is all it is...their experience. As for me...I believe the bible, there is no hell and when we are dead, WE ARE DEAD....until...... ::)
Akira329:
These is a pretty weird topic ???
The only thing I know you can learn from Satan is how to lie and deceive!
At the end of the day when you finally come to know the truth, who do you thank for your new found knowledge and wisdom?
Do we thank God for Satan's work in our lives???
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
Is this what Paul did here???
As for NEAR death experiences, what could any one experience prove about life AFTER death.
I've had lucid dreams and sleep paralysis all of which to me can explain the majority of these experiences but
I agree with Ray, I would love to hear someones story after having been dead, that would be awesome!!
Antaiwan
carol v:
Just to clear things up since this is causing confusion on this thread and in pm's with people wanting to teach me the error of my ways...
I did not say that we are to worship Satan, be thankful to Satan, seek out Satan, love Satan, prize Satan, consider Satan as equal to Christ, etc. etc. etc.
I simply believe that God created Satan as a tool and that God's creation and God's methods have value. Having value does not mean that I long for it, love it, seek it out, want it, prize it above Christ.
I simply place value on all God's methods and tools which HE uses to bring us into His image. To you it may be a "necessary" tool but to me it is a "valuable" tool -- I think it's the semantics of the words.
If you've ever heard the phrase "a valuable lesson" than that is what I value about Satan -- he is a tool of God that has been used to give me many valuable lessons. God has had to hit me over the head with His hammer many many times and without those hits I would not be where I am today. Without that hammer I would not have learned the damage of lies, the pain of betrayal, the hurt of viscious gossip, the ... well, surely you can see my meaning. These lessons have value. Tools with value can be called valuable. It does not mean they are diamonds, rubies, crude oil or above Christ.
We thank God because Satan is just God's hammer and that is ALL I ever said from the beginning of this whole thing. I value all of God's methods to bring us all into His image. Okay? Okay. If you don't like the word "value" then please pick another.
I sincerely apologize for any confusion and comments I've made in this thread or in pm's in response to this thread. It's just my opinion of God's sovereignty, methods and scripture. Things can quickly get out of hand in this forum and again, I apologize for any misunderstandings.
KristaD:
I understood you perfectly carol and very much agree ;). Without darkness we can't know light. Satan is a perfect way to show us just how good God is and for that he is quite valuable. He was made by God for that purpose and nothing God did/made is wasted or can be done without :). That's very different than worshipping or even thanking satan, I get it, you thank God for what He shows you thru satan.
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